1.6.2 Solo Parenting in Motion (Part 2): Dating With Kids and the Courage to Be Honest

This is a continuation of Solo Parenting in Motion — moving from travel and rebuilding confidence into one of the hardest next questions widowed parents face:

How do you date when kids are involved — without erasing the past or confusing the present?

Matt, Ben, and Ken unpack real, unfiltered conversations about:

• Talking to kids about dating after a parent’s death
• When (and how) to introduce someone new
• Why widowed parents often move faster but more intentionally
• The difference between being “part of” a family versus trying to replace someone
• Red flags, green flags, and gut instincts that matter more after loss

This episode centers on honesty, boundaries, and respect — for your kids, your late partner, and yourself. It’s not about rushing forward. It’s about moving forward wisely, with eyes open and hearts intact.

Ready for more than just listening? Explore the CLIMB framework and support options at https://solodad.life/

Transcript

Matt 0:23

Did you have a dating talk? Or like because your boys are a little older. So how did that yeah, a little bit?

Ken 0:30

I mean, when I first similar probably to Ben, like when I first started thinking about dating, and I just sat, you know, we were having dinner, I think, one time, and I just sat down and said, hey, so I want to tell you guys, I think, you know, this is what I'm thinking about doing, and this is what it means. And this is, you know, it doesn't mean this, doesn't mean that I'm gonna be getting married right away or anything like that. It just means that I'm going to go out on dates and you know, maybe have a girlfriend. And then they kind of asked me a couple questions, and then that was it. They were like, Okay, that's cool.

Matt 1:06

Yeah, that sounds like a pretty similar conversation, yeah.

Ben 1:08

The same thing. Yep.

Matt 1:10

Just recently I was telling somebody because I was going through some of my uh some of Marcy's pictures, and it's kind of weird you get in these files, right? Like before me, with me, with our kid, dead stuff, anyway. So so doing kind of these files, and there's uh some pictures of uh what I assume is some guys she dated before she met me, and which these things happen, right? How's that possible? I've I thought everyone waited to meet me.

Ken 1:38

Um I thought you killed those people, right?

Matt 1:41

Right, like that's what I right. That's what that now that's a movie I'd watch anyway. No, um, but like it was, I was thinking I was actually talking to my mom about it. I was like, I want these pictures in there so that Blair understands that like you go through a process to meet the person you wind up choosing, right? Because I think too many times people are like, Oh, I have a history, I want to hide it. And I'm like, Well, you can edit it for viewing purposes, but like I think important, right? Well, and we're forced to have that conversation with our children because if you decide to go out and date, and when it's healthy again, they have to understand that and whether you've had conversations about there with someone prior to mom or not, now there's going to be somebody after mom or after your spouse, depending on who's listening. And so it's like, oh, because I hadn't planned to have this conversation with my kid until she was a much older, or ever because it was just her mom and I, right? Like that's not in your wheelhouse. So it's interesting how it forces what I think is a healthy conversation, probably just earlier than norm we would normally have it, right? Like, hey, mom and I, you know, mom, mom and I dated, you know, later in life, and we dated other people before. And through trial and error, we realized this is pretty good. So why don't we see how far we can take it? So it's interesting, right? But like sitting down with the young ones, they're like, Yeah, whatever, right? And or you know, do they get twice as much money, or you're you know, your boys seem to be you know comfortable with it. How do you like? I know you made the kind of the this is dad's girlfriend. What just in uh quickly? Yeah, how do I say this? Because I have not, because I think I'm probably weird. Um I don't bring like I don't introduce anyone to I did this with my oldest too. I dated a lot, she never knew because I had her every other weekend so I could get away with it, right? Um how do you make that introduction? Divorce, right? Yeah, well, yeah. So how do you how do you how do you make that introduction? Like, what do you did you plan it out? I know Ben, I think we talked about it one time too, like you know, it's a playground thing and just kind of feeling it out.

Ben 3:46

I've done yeah, I've done um multiple things depending on the person. There's definitely been several that have zero contact with the kids, uh, for sure. And then there was uh one other solo mom I dated, and so the only option we had was either both of us pay for a babysitter, we meet for play dates initially and then do something from there. Um but I would say I wouldn't there was always I always made sure if the girls met the kids, I'm like, hey, nothing affectionate in front of the kids. Like this is a we were hanging out as friends um until if and when it got to a point of going, okay, we're gonna make this a thing, we're gonna make this a thing in front of the kids. Um but until then it's a play date. Daddy hangs out with friends all the time. This is another friend we're hanging out, it just happens to be a nice time and they have a kid too, or they don't have a kid, whatever the situation is like. But I kept the display of affection out of it until I felt comfortable.

Matt 5:05

That's a pretty good general rule of thumb, I think. I think that's okay. Yeah.

Ken 5:11

So you were kind of like Hugh Hefner.

Ben 5:14

Well, Sans, they're 40 years younger than me, and five of them.

Ken 5:18

You walk them around the robe. It's right. Like the little ascot, like no touch-in, girl. Because if you do a little break in half. And later on we'll meet in the grotto. That is a grotto?

Ben 5:33

Son of a well, it's it's a little kitty pool I have in the backyard. He calls it the grotto. If I'm careful, it fills with rainwater and I have to dump them out occasionally. Come to my grotto. Ew. Why is the host still running?

Matt 5:50

Right. Go to nice. Yeah, just go with it. What about you? What about you, Ken?

Ken 5:54

How did like yeah, I agree with that? Generally speaking, like generally speaking, like, yeah, I I had I had basically, well, the first woman that I dated was kind of a a longer, a little bit longer relationship. So eventually we got to that point where I yeah, I introduced her to the boys. After a while, I had her over. Like, I remember the first time. I think it was actually it was, I think I remember the first time because I wanted, I didn't, I hadn't changed anything in the house. I remember I had all the pictures up. I still had all kinds of stuff. And I wanted her to see that because I wanted to gauge her reaction. I wanted to see like, is this really gonna freak her out a lot or how much?

Matt 6:36

A little shocking awe. Yeah, yeah.

Ken 6:37

Yeah, just sort of the gate. And you know what? And it was a good indicator because eventually that was what you know was one of the sort of the factors that ended the relationship. Is she was very insecure about even my history of like having that, you know, um love in my life that I that I did. Like she was always sort of cagey about that. So that should have been a good indicator of red flag right away, a little bit.

Matt 7:05

Yeah.

Ken 7:05

But yeah, with like there was been in between Kelly and Julia, there was like two other women that I dated briefly, you know, two or three dates each. And you know, there's no way I like I basically did the same thing. I sort of gauged it. Like, if I was at the point I remember with Julia, we were at fourth date, and I was like, I knew that it was going awesome. And I said, Well, why don't we? I said, Why don't you drop by the house? And she had some, I think I forgot what she needed. I think she needed some totes or something. I'm like, just come by my house, I'll I'll give them to you. And she's like, Oh, is that listeners? What are totes? Like just you know, the big plastic, packable, clear, see-through totes, like rubber maids. Rubber maids. There we go.

Ben 7:52

Oh, there it is. There it is. I guess wrong.

Ken 7:55

Yeah, you did.

Ben 7:57

It's like milk milk crate.

Ken 7:59

God damn American are these like toaster strudels? Or they no totes T-O-T-E-S totes. Anyway. What do you guys call them? You just call them rubber maids? Do you go by rubber maids or bins? Or bins, okay. There's we say bins too. Plastic bins, whatever. See, we're we're all inclusive up here. It's an all-inclusive smorgasbord of the English language. Everybody's happy. Keep going. Sorry, but I was like, so so she came over and I was just and she's like, is it okay? And I'm like, yeah. I was like, you're but your boys are gonna be there. I'm like, yeah, I'll introduce you briefly. And she's like, oh, okay. Because it was interesting because her her past history, talking about past relationships, she dated numerous, you know, single guys, divorced guys, you know, uh, never a widower, but a lot of situations where there were kids involved. And she, I remember the one the one that she told me about, she dated this guy for a year, and he was divorced, and he didn't introduce her to his kids. Wow. An entire year. Absolutely. And I was like, and he kept on making different excuses, right? Oh, well, you know, no, my wife wouldn't like, and and actually, she found out in the end he was a lawyer, like he was a lawyer, and his wife was a lawyer, and she hadn't started a relationship yet with anyone, so he didn't want to be the first one to crack that egg, so to speak. So he was and on top of that, a lot of his clientele came from his wife's family business of law, like he was getting a lot of business still through the I didn't want to lose that money pit. Yeah, so he didn't want to lose that. So he was like him by the short and curlies anyway.

Matt 9:52

Well, obviously, that divorce obviously that divorce never actually went all the way through because I don't know how divorces work, but you're really not supposed to be involved. You know, but what so real quick, so what's interesting is I um eventually well, no, just like just an eight-date.

Ben 10:07

Yeah, eight-date person. Eight date, yeah.

Matt 10:10

I'm gonna go find my um so with someone I went on several dates for who in the same kind of experience was, you know, she had dated a few people who had been divorced previously, and she kept putting meeting the kid, you know, meeting the kid or kids at this very high, like, oh my gosh, this is a huge, huge deal. And I think this is probably a great pin, and we can come back to this conversation at some point. And this is my own opinion. Uh and people usually like roll their eyes or they get mad, and you have to hear my full explanation. It isn't a big deal in my situation. What it is is it's like meeting my dog, and I don't mean my kids are my dogs, it means I need to see if you're gonna fit in this household really quick because this can't go any further. There's not time for us to take a year and do every other weekend to figure it out. A year's too long, in my own opinion. But like it needs to happen quicker than normal and not on a deep level, but like, yeah, we can go to fancy restaurants and have lovely times and see shows. That's not solo dad stuff. Solo dad is mac and cheese and messy diapers and a screaming kid at 9:30 at night. I need to see if you're okay with that, especially if this person happened to have no kids, especially if you haven't done that before, right? And so there's this thing where they're like, oh, like it's a really and it is, it is important, but more about like, and I can't find the right articulation about it. It's something about I gotta find like some physics terminology. It's like speed and velocity, right? It's like we need to get there quickly, safely. And I want to use the baseball analogy, but to a certain level of trust. Because at and again, not that we're that old, but I don't have the time to be quite frankly dicking around with are you gonna work in my life? Like, I need to figure out you're gonna work my life, and now we can we can go from there quickly. Yeah, because I don't want to waste six months going, like, are we gonna work or are we not? You meet my kid, you're I like you know, it's just not so that's why I was asking, like, how do you make that introduction? Because I think you know, and if you make it simple, like where they came by the house to get some totes, or you go to you meet at the you meet at the playground, right? Like, you know, to see it, and like not to bemoan that like my my kids are super important to me, not to say they're like my dog, but it's kind of like that where it's like if you're you know, if you're a dog householder, a cat householder, or a head iguana household, you need to see if the person you're dating fits, right? Like if they're anti-cat or they hate animals, you're like, whoa boy, well, what am I gonna do here?

Ken 12:40

But you know what, Matt, you make a good point because the people that I think we're looking for, we're not we're not looking to dick around, we're not looking for, oh yeah, let's go, let's date. And if you are, by the way, for six months, that's okay.

Matt 12:54

If that's part of your healing journey, that's okay.

Ken 12:57

Yeah, sure, sure. If you want, if you want, but I I I think okay, this is just my theory, yep, but I'm gonna put this out there. I think as guys that all came from a good relationship, we all enjoyed the person that we had, we're kind of looking for that again. 100%. What would it be? We're not like chasing your phone, you know. Yeah, we're not, we're not, yeah, we're not 22 and going, oh yeah, man, now I'm gonna play the field. I can't wait to just get out there and hammer as many chicks as I can. There's there's not we're we're looking for that relationship that's gonna give us that same kind of feeling, right? Yeah, so I think by introducing them to the kids, I think it's a good idea if you're at that point where because it's gonna give you a good indicator of how serious they are. And if and and just like you said, if they're into if they're looking for a relationship, it's been interesting.

Matt 13:57

A few people, you know, either hinted or said, like, oh, well, maybe I can spend some time with not like some like crazy, like we all take a weekend trip or something together, but they did bring up like, can't we? You know, now I think we're you know maybe I can spend some time with you guys, like as the family, and I'm like, even as like a friend. And when for me personally, again, just speaking, when all of a sudden all of my walls go up, and I go, like, oh no, no, no, no, no, no. Like, we can hang out, but we us cannot hang out. I'm like, maybe this isn't what I should that's a good yeah, maybe I should not be going out with you as often as I should.

Ben 14:35

Yeah, yeah. You need to be able to have that comfort of be like, yes, I want to do it. And I think too, like Ken said, uh, if they're into it too, because they can have the idea of especially like with me with three littles, they need to be able to see the chaos. Like they need to be able to come in and go, Here's what post-dinner looks like. Here is what I mean.

Matt 14:58

I'll be out there in a week, and I'm not even sure I'm prepared. Oh it's coming in. It's there's gonna be a tornado of the. From what you said prior to or pre-recording, I'm bringing wipes. I'm bringing wipes and I'm coming in hot.

Ben 15:11

Lots of gloves and wipes, please. Lots, lots of both. And and it's and like and to see them like A, if they have a kid, their parenting style. Because if you don't have similar parenting styles, then A immediately not gonna work. So we have to check the parenting styles, and then B, if they can handle the questions, because like the kids, like you say, the black and white questions.

Matt 15:32

Especially, yeah, especially at the younger age. Yeah, yeah.

Ben 15:35

Yeah, and so like are you like those questions of are you gonna be like, or like one of my favorite is um uh uh the the girl the woman I'm dating has a daughter and like Nadia made a comment one time about it's almost like you are uh like whatever, like like it was the two of us and the two daughters and hers, or the three girls and something like that. And she like she made some sort of comment in regards to if this was the case or whatever, and then her daughter goes, like, well, you don't have a mommy. And then my daughter's like, Well, my mommy's in my heart. She's like, Well, but you don't have a mommy. It's like if you have to know if they are able to handle those just in your face comments and questions because they are gonna happen, yeah, and those kids just like and when it clicks, it just vomits out. They can't help it.

Matt 16:36

Like it's just right, and it's not gonna come from a malicious.

Ben 16:39

No, it's just like it's and it's a very honest question. Like, are a like I haven't gotten the are you gonna be my mommy yet? But like it's you have the dynamics of their children, if they have children, of well, this is my mommy, not your mommy, because your mommy's dead and you don't have a mommy, right? And like, can they handle that kind of awkward scenario and also be able to go and be gracious enough to accept and run with the random chaos and awkwardness of like, okay, I am not here to replace your mommy.

Matt 17:17

And nor are you there to replace someone's dad either.

Ben 17:19

Right, right like either way, like and to find somebody that can handle that dynamic of I'm here to be part of with versus replace. And that's really good. Say that again real quick to be part of versus replace um to kind of accept that knowing of like, hey, your loss of parent is important. I acknowledge that and I respect that. And I also want to let you know that I can also add to it. Yeah, I guess is kind of the like, and to find somebody that can handle that kind of dynamic, yeah. It's nice to be able to find or pick up on that or notice that, and you can't do that until you get them in front of the kids. Right, right.

Matt 18:14

Yeah, right. Yeah, well, I I had yeah, that I I wrote that one down. That's actually really good. I I think that there's there's um I I I like the the not here to re you know, how'd you say it? Here to be a part of not replace. I think that's you know, uh it's an intro. It's it's even hard for adults to figure that out, let alone right. Oh, and that's what I was gonna say. And and so it's even hard for adults to figure that out. And in that same kind of vein of being a part of not replace to give, and I was thinking with the three littles, and then if you know your person uh that you're dating now has some as a child, everybody, the Venn diagram of overlap of everybody involved, has to give space to both parts, right? So, like you need to be part of, but you're not replacing anybody, but at the same time, you've got to give the kids enough space to be like, you know, she's like, Well, you don't have a mommy. Well, right, but this really nice person may want to be one day like my a mom to me, but not in violation of that kid's mom. Like, you're not taking their mom, but it could feel like way away, just like anytime families blend, right? Yeah, so but it's interesting that kind of I was kind of thinking, I was like, Man, you got to give not you personally, everyone involved. Uh it has to give enough space to allow each of those kind of areas to live and breathe. Because you know, uh Nadia is gonna want to have her Gwen time and memories, right? Yeah, so like no one wants to step on those, but we'll just say she will also want to have time with whoever is a female role model in her life going forward.

Ken 20:00

Yeah, I I was just gonna say that that like the the the I've noticed this with the boys too, just even with having a nanny, like having Esther around as a maternal influence, that's what kids crave. They don't crave to be, you know, a mom is one thing, but being maternal can be filled by a numerous people in in different, you know, if it's your nanny or if it's your girlfriend or your partner or whoever. But kids do crave that. And as long as it's in, I think it's the most if it's set up in a in an environment where they know, yeah, we're not trying to replace, just like you said, but we're just trying to this person's here because they they love you too and they wanna you know take care of you as well.

Matt 20:50

I've noticed that with with uh Blair is that like anytime there's a reoccurring female, nanny, babysitter, grandma, uh you know, she'll quite quickly latch on to like the the mom side of it, right? And then when they leave, which is very typical for it, nanny leaves every day, grandma's you know, stay for a while and leave for a little bit, she gets very like, but I want that person back. Even if like, you know, grandma's here and then annie comes, like she's like, she's a but I now I want the nanny leaves, is like I want the nanny back. And I'm like, what in the hell's going on? It's because of that missing that maternal side, which I've talked about this in I I don't know if we talked about in one of the other ones, but but I also recognize because of my growing up situation that I truly believe that Blair needs a female touch in her life, right? Because I did not have a fatherly touch in my life, like I have a dad since age of 12. And so, like, I'm I'm I'm keen on that idea of like anytime I rub her back, I'm like, yeah, it's loving and it's great. And I've from Bluey, is it too rough? Give me a bark, right? Like, am I doing it because I'm a guy, right? Like this big, huge meat hook of a hand is right now, it's okay, it's not a mom, you know, like it's there's a different vibe, it's different, it's just uh you know, I'm not saying all women are soft per se, but it's a softer, gentler.

Ben 22:14

And I think it's just the and it even like if you're talking, I think it's just that second personality, even if you're talking like same-sex couples, sure, those kinds of things, like it's just having that secondary dynamic of having that other piece, yep.

Matt 22:32

Yeah, and a yin and the yin, if you will, they don't necessarily have to be opposites but different, okay.

Ben 22:37

But yeah, just that just that good point additional part, yeah.

Ken 22:42

And you know what it is too? It it helps because as we all know, as solo dad, like I'm sure Ben, you know, you can probably relate, but when you're by yourself and you're with your kids and your kids are driving you crazy, you lose your shit. Yeah, your patience and you just like gone, yeah, yeah. And but having that second person, that's the other thing. The influence, they they just calm you down, they can tag team you out, they buffer you, yeah. So yeah, that's that's huge. And then the kids realize that they recognize that they're like, you know what? Dad, dad doesn't get as angry as he does when when you know staff or Julia's around or whoever dad's not even on insert whatever app is available.

Matt 23:26

I'm just I'm mailing it in at this point. Um, but no, well, but you're right, because one of the things like I'll tell Blair is I'm like, I and because she can't really tell time yet because I'm not teaching her because I'm terrified if I do, she'll actually figure it out. But I'll be like, Dad just needs five minutes, like just put on YouTube, whether it's five minutes, seven minutes, or eight minutes, because I'm like, whether she's ticked me off, or I'm like, I just like I need eight minutes to fold laundry, kid. And it's like she wants to do this thing, and it you know, sometimes I take a deep breath and I'm like, you know what, go do the thing with her, it's fine. But other times I'm like, I can't because the noodles are gonna boil or whatever. Like, it's like I just and there's in we've again, I think we've talked about this before. You look around and there is nobody else in the room.

Ben 24:14

Well, I can't tell you how many times dinner has been overcooked because I've got a kid wrapped around my ankles. I'm like, or there's like I'm trying to cook, and then there's like mad drama in the other room. And like, yeah, and you come back, you're like, Well, that part's ruined because it took me an extra 10 minutes to try to deal with the shenanigans or you know what I kept doing?

Matt 24:34

I kept screwing up spaghetti noodles because I was so used to being able to like be at the pot turning the kids are like once you go past 10 minutes, you're screwed, like it's just a lump. And she invariably would need something or and rightly. So you know, I pooped in my diaper, change me. I'm like, Oh, okay. You walk her away from the boiling bike, come back. I'm like, I guess we're having spaghetti mush now for dinner because dad wasn't there to take it. It's crazy, right? Like, you could be like, for two minutes, can someone else either change your diaper? Can someone so I think that uh yeah, and it it'll be interesting to see, you know who it'll be fun to ask is my oldest daughter to be like, Hey, so you saw me as a part-time as a co-parent, as a part-time dad, you saw me as a parent with Marcy for a slim window, then you saw me go solo dad or dad solo, we're trying to decide which way we're gonna go with that, and then maybe one day you'll see me partner up again. What those are four very different contrasts of she's old enough to really pick up on all that too.

Ben 25:35

Yeah, yeah. Which is and she's like and she's dialed in too.

Matt 25:39

So it'd be good. I would pick her brain. It'd be it's gonna be an interesting be like, have you because I definitely I think she's noticed some things because there's been some changes in her behaviors where she's doing things helpfully with zero asking. I think she's finally picked up on like dad's barely treading water, and I probably should help, which is awesome. And I know that's not every place, but that wasn't the case two years ago, right? Like sure, dad and Marcy have it the world by the tail, and everything's great, and take me to Buffalo Wild Wings, right? Like it was it was and now it's like dad looks like he hasn't slept and or shaved or taken a shower, and which I will before I come, I promise Dan Ben, I will take a shower.

Ben 26:24

If not, I will throw you in the shower and we'll make it happen.

Matt 26:27

Cool, maybe cool pond.

Ken 26:28

The grotto, yeah, the grotto singing outside. You know that scene?

Matt 26:35

Yes, the delouse with the powder, yes, absolutely. Some lump powder, yeah. But no, I think you know, I that's a really great, I think that's another great write that one down for the topic of like the conversation that happens when you blend. And what who would be great to bring in is someone who has blended and be like, how did you know, how did it work? How did it not work? You know, where are you at now?

Ken 27:00

And that's the other thing, and that's the other thing too, is like when I like just with Julia, like it it all kind of fell into place naturally. Like it wasn't like we it let it wasn't like we had to sit down and go, Oh my god, okay, um, you're gonna meet my boys. What are you gonna say? What are you gonna say? What time are we gonna do with this? I was like, no, let's just make it like you can come in, I'll call them up from downstairs, they'll be they'll they'll get off their screens for five minutes and say hello, and then that that'll be that.

Matt 27:31

And they'll be like, he's sure it was red when he was introducing us here.

Ken 27:35

Yeah, but from that point forward, it's been like a really easy fit. And I think that's the other thing with relationships is that you know when you know, just like when I overheard you say, Matt, when you were like, Oh, you know, she's like, Oh, when am I gonna can I hang out? You know, Blair, and you're just like, uh no, I think I like it when it's just the two of us.

Matt 27:57

And I love how you said that. So, like, I've had people even before everything went off the rails with Marcy, like some of her closest friends, one time were asking me, like, how'd you know you're gonna marry her? And I was like, I didn't. All I knew is I wanted every date we went on to just continue for as long as I could. Marriage, no marriage. And like that's kind of like what you're saying. It's like when you know, you just know. I'm like, I don't know if it's gonna end in marriage or not. I just knew I wanted to spend as much time with this human as I possibly could. And if that made marriage, great if it didn't, fine. But like, so I think it's interesting, like, especially, and again, I think an asterisk to a lot of this conversation is the the three of us are coming out of, which is a really weird thing to say when you think about it, out of fairly I can only speak for myself, functional and happy relationships. And so when that's the kind of baseline you're running from, everything and I know comparing is kind of a bad thing to say, but like you're not comparing the person to the person, you're comparing your gut feeling in your past experience, going like, yeah, this is is this good? Right, is it safe? Is it healthy? Right. And when your gut goes like maybe not, you might need to listen to it now.

Ben 29:08

At our age, you should trust your gut because we're like you've developed, you're not 20 going, this is gonna funky. I don't understand this.

Matt 29:15

Hey, do you just did you just say like our good guts are developed? Like, I'm trying to lose weight, dude. How are we gonna bring that up?

Ken 29:20

Let's no, no, no, don't lose the weight. You're gonna lose the development. Exactly. You're gonna need that development. You need that. Don't worry about it. Tell my doctor, you'll love every interview.

Matt 29:33

Every interview, Matt, he's gonna love it. I need to trust this gut. But yeah, it's a rap song about that.

Ken 29:40

I've yeah, it's total that's totally the truth, though.

Matt 29:44

I think well, but but with the understanding that you know, coming out of a healthy, balanced, good relationship, you know, yeah, well, you know, with people who who Julia said that to me.

Ken 29:55

Yeah, she was like, she was like, you know, she goes, When you first told me that you you were a widower, I was like, and she was with her couple of her really good friends, actually, her best friend. And she was, and literally when I texted that to her from the you know, the get-go, she's like, I said to her, I was like, I wish I could have been a fly on the wall, because she's like, Holy shit, you guys, listen to this. And then she read my thing because she opened with, so what's your story? And I was like, I'm gonna rip the band-aid off on your side. And and so then it was like cupcake, yeah, exactly. Exactly. So, but but that being said, you know, she was like, all of a sudden she started thinking about it, and she's like, Yeah, I've I've had I've had past relationships with guys that have been, you know, single or and most of them had either been divorced single or separated single. And she's like, This guy's coming from a good relationship. He's, you know, aside from the widower thing, has got all those other qualities where when we we started unpacking this later, obviously, when we had some really good conversations, and she's like, Yeah, she's like, a lot of guys, a lot of times you realize the person you're with, you know, there's a reason they got divorced. And it's not always, you know, it like they can blame the other partner for so much, but it always takes two, right? So she was she was very frank when that, and she was like, Yeah, it's probably you know, this is probably good, and and that's probably one of the reasons that we kind of got off, you know, hit the ground running, things really, and I mean she doesn't have any kids of her own. So that was that was another thing that's uh uh well, it doesn't complicate things as much, right? Like, you know, you always sort of consider those things, and she's very open to kids, like she loves being around kids. She's she's just she always said she's just I've never had a lot of people.

Matt 32:00

She was playing with either the friend's kids or something, right? Yeah, yeah.

Ken 32:04

Yeah, she's reading to her best friend's kids, like she had this picture where she's reading to like all three of them. So I was like, that was pretty unique. Like, I'd never seen a profile where uh a woman posted that uh on purpose, a picture with other kids, right? And I was like, that that's pretty attractive, actually. Um, so it kind of let me know her mindset, and that was funny. In her caption, in that profile, she's like, No, these aren't my kids, but these are my best friend, they call me anti-go that route, these aren't my kids.

Matt 32:38

Yeah, that's right. Start off with the lies. That's a great idea. Start off with the lies. See how that works because we're gonna build the truth. Is getting me nowhere right now, it's getting me nowhere. Um, no, well, you know what though? You two, like I I going back good good for her for kind of recognizing it. I think that that's that's kind of the premise I heard about the show, the unicorn, right? Ben, you're talking words. People the friends in the show are like, what are you talking about? You're a unicorn because you've done it before, but now you get to do it again, right? I think it's something like that. Like, you're you know, yeah, it was something you made it, you've made it work.

Ben 33:12

Right. It's like like like everyone wants to be like, you like it's like you have you had that happy relationship, like you figured out how to make a relationship work, and you didn't like it ended unexpectedly, but like you still know how to make that relationship, like and you have the kids, you're successful, yeah, you know how to love, you aren't damaged other than the like the group side, but like you don't have that like divorce or that person I traits that were like end relationships, like because you were theoretically was just gonna keep going. Yeah, and so that was kind of the premise is like you have this ability to maintain a long-term relationship. Unfortunately, it didn't happen, but it was there, you can do it, and so like the fact that you can makes it special. And you know what?

Ken 33:57

And it's as long, and that's the thing. Think about that the baggage that a person has if they're divorced compared to widowed or widower, the divorce, you know, you gotta the kids are going back and forth, there's the drop-offs, the pickups, the yeah, you know, there's all of those things that are still gonna play into your relationship because you're gonna have to deal with it. Whereas with us, as long as they are are open to the fact that yeah, we love that person, we still love that person, even though they're no longer here, but that person's not competing with you. If they can get over those three little humps and realize that, okay, that's just and and it's funny because that was one thing Julia was so open to. Like on our first date back at my house, she asked to see pictures of Leanne. She was like, Oh, on the first date, yeah. Well, the first date back at my house. Okay, gotcha. Okay. So, like, we had gone out a few times, right? And then, you know, finally we was like, Oh, I was like, Okay, why don't we have a date back at my place? We'll do like movie and whatever. And uh, and then she's that when we were just having drinks, cocktails, uh, and she's like, you know, I've never really seen, and that was the other thing is I know she didn't really um, you know, go down the Google hole and try to figure out, you know, who Leanne was and and all of that kind of stuff because she was honest, she was like, I, you know, I've never seen pictures of Leanne or anything, I haven't looked it up or anything, but you know, can you show me some? And I'm like, Yeah, for sure. So that was really cool. It was like I knew right away that she wasn't threatened. Yeah, and she was interested. She was genuinely interested.

Matt 35:35

I think I think if uh I agree, and I don't know. Um, well, just uh what I was talking to someone about impos what is it? Uh what's it what's it called? Imposter syndrome where you're like who's gonna want to hear this and why would anyone listen to me? I'm an idiot. But I think that's a huge sign in an appropriate amount of time, and whether they've Googled it or not, I don't even search on Facebook, whatever. But what I realized is I have no recollection of anyone asking me about my Olay Wife on any date ever, at any point. And I now realize that severely bothers me. Right, because and I think it comes from what you're saying, Ken, which is like whether it's now or in 20 years from now, you're gonna have to know who she was because she is living inside of our daughter, like there's no doubt about whose child she is, right? Right. I have another child who's a little more like me, and so I'm like, that I get what my youngest does. I have no idea how to handle. Like, I'm like, this is a different level, and so even with or without kids, there and I've referenced, and I need to find this. I'll try to I'll put it in the show notes. Hopefully, there's a great article, and I think I've talked about this before, man. Remember, and Ken and maybe told you this one, where this lady has married, we'll just go, this guy, Bob. And Bob had lost his wife, who was like his high school sweetheart, to like cancer at a relatively young age. So we'll just go like in their 20s. Well, this lady's now married to Bob, they're in their 30s, they have a beautiful little daughter who's like five. And in this op-ed or story, this lady's writing, the little girl finds pictures of dad with this other lady, and she goes, Oh, that's Mary. Dad was married to Mary before he met me, and she got she had cancer and she died. And she goes, I've been with Bob for eight years, we've been married, we have a child, and it wasn't until that very moment, and she writes it so eloquently, I'm butchering the shit out of it, until that very moment that if it wasn't for this lady I'd never met that I never knew, that I never had any interaction with, I would not have my beautiful child and the wonderful life I have today. If she died, if she lived, Bob would still be married to her. I would have and he would have become the man he was. And it's a really warped thing. It's not being thankful that our person has died, that's the wrong terminology, right? But it's interesting.

Ken 38:01

It's a real advancement on that butterfly effect. It totally is.

Matt 38:04

It's a it's it's and it's it's this whole idea. And so if like if they can't have just a little bit of respect and reverence for the person that isn't that made us who we are, like I'm like, like you're gonna meet my mom, you're gonna meet my dad, you're gonna meet my family who had influence on me. That's great. But there's also this really important person that you're never gonna be able to meet that you need to know about, and you should have enough strength and fortitude if you're gonna get on this crazy train to ask a couple of questions about her, right? I think that's super, I think too many people, you know, either take the take the well, this person's good enough, right? And then bury literally and emotionally their person, and they just move forward with their life and they can't figure out why they're angry sometimes or they're sad sometimes. And it's like, well, because your new person isn't respecting your old person, and that's up to each individual what that means. But I would I would venture to bet that whether it was you were with the person 10 days or 10 years, if your new partner has the expectation that there are zero pictures of your old person around ever forever, you should probably walk away. They're just not worth your time because they're not gonna ever gonna get it ever. And I'm not saying that like how many Puka Shell necklace wedding photos did you take down 37 at your house, Ben? I don't get no about that many. Yeah, about that many. But it was like I don't know. My he Gwen really liked you in that picture, apparently.

Ben 39:24

Well, there was like it was it's mad just a little bit, but like I had photos everywhere, like and it was it was a creative thing because like before Gwen actually died, she went on this photo rampage and actually went through, and there was like multiple instances where I actually had two or three of the same photo framed in different parts of the house. Like I had photos everywhere. I think I've started taking like I took a bunch of anyway. I've I have it it's safe to say I probably had sixty to seventy photos flying around the house.

Ken 39:57

And here's a little and here's a little sidebar on On the photo thing. I think it's appropriate to take them down when you feel it's appropriate. I agree. And I I think the only way you're ever gonna know that is to just you gotta do it and then you gotta kind of feel it out. And then sometimes you put a few back up. Yeah. You're kind of like, you know what? Yeah, okay. I'm taking this one, this one, and this one. You get them all down, and then you're like, no, I'm keeping this one up. I love it because I like this one.

Matt 40:28

Well, my what we have the same counselor, but what my counselor is telling me is I'm like, I'm like I have this weird thing with our wedding rings. I don't know why they're in this specific drawer, and I cannot put them with the rest of the jewelry, and they're not in the safe box. He goes, and he goes, It's because you want to bump into them randomly. You want them jingling around in this drawer, and you're like, Oh, there they are. And it's kind of like the pictures, too, where well, I really haven't re-pictured because made them move, haven't really necessarily re pictured the whole house, but like in my bedroom, there are pictures on the on the dresser because I like them there, but they're not they're not out in the public space because I'm like, that's not where I want to hold the reverence, and that's that's not that's not a direction for anybody, but I also realized at one point I'm like, oh shoot, my daughters have zero pictures of her in their room, and that didn't sit well with me, so we fixed that problem. But like it's interesting.

Ben 41:21

I had the kind of the opposite problem. I had photos, and they there were still in your house, right? Like, I mean, I'm still in my house, I haven't gone anywhere, and I guess so many photos that I had glazed over them, like I didn't see them anymore.

Ken 41:35

Yeah, and yeah, yeah, because they're part of the house, right? Yeah, yeah.

Ben 41:39

It's uh and then and then and like some of these photos are two, three, four years old, and like they're just and I actually had a friend come over one time, they're like it's a little overwhelming having oh, especially after wine had had passed. Oh, yeah, of course. Yeah, like and like and actually had a couple friends actually I went after I went through and did kind of my I don't know, uh like after I went through and assessed the pictures, I actually had a couple friends come back to me and say, like, hey, we didn't want to say anything, but it was a little intense coming into your house and seeing that many two photos.

Ken 42:14

I had my own, I had my own in-laws, so Leanne's parents when they came down for the first Easter afterwards. I remember the one time, and I remember my father-in-law being pretty emotional that weekend because it was intense. But I've grown used to all these pictures up everywhere, but for him, it was like Oh, you hadn't no, I hadn't yet. No, no, not at that point. Okay, and I remember I remember Val saying to me, She's like, Yeah, he's just you know, there's a lot of memories of Leanne here, and obviously lots of photos up. And I'm like, Oh, yeah, yeah, there are. So he started walking around her own parents, right?

Matt 42:50

Yeah, like 97, 98. Yeah, there are a lot, right? Right.

Ben 42:54

So yeah, so I did kind of say, like, I did uh the kids, I did pictures for the kids up in their room so they could make and um I did some like kind of like Matt and I talked about like that, like the personal out of sight insight stuff kind of thing.

Matt 43:10

The hidden in plain sight type stuff. I love that.

Ben 43:12

Yes, yeah, it's phenomenal.

Matt 43:13

The problem is I feel like if I keep giving that away and I keep giving examples, people are gonna walk in my house like, well, I know where all the stuff is.

Ben 43:21

It'll give examples just like it's hidden in plain sight, and it's for me to know. It's for me to know. Yeah, get a hold of Nicolas Cage if you want to know more.

Ken 43:27

Yeah, but that but that's that's a cool that that's the cool thing, like with Julia. Like I have pictures up and she's seen all she is I and I have like a little shrine, like I do keep a little shrine on my on my one uh on my one dresser in my walk-in closet. And I was like, Yeah, that's there. And she knows it's there, like she's and and that's the thing, she thinks it's it's cool, like she has no right with it. I love awesome.

Matt 43:55

The phrase I used one time, and you know, apparently we'll have to put an explicit on this one because I think I've dropped a couple already, but um, like we were cleaning out um medical supplies and stuff out of the bathroom, and someone rightly so we kind of make up what do you do with that? But you know, whatever, but most of it went away or whatever. And we have electric toothbrushes, and my wife's on the left side, I'm on the right. And someone was like just getting stuff off the counter of the bathroom, and I I think it was actually my mom, and I was like, Nope, the toothbrush goes back. And my mom's like, Really? And I'm like, Yep, I can't tell you why, but it needs to stay out, right? The makeup out of the drawer, fine, the medical supplies they all go away. That needs to stay out. It didn't go back out when we moved in a new house. And the phrase I use with another one is was I was one time I was like, All I know is not yet fuckers, that's all I know. And then eventually it is okay. Like whether it's the picture or the you know, the the shrine gets less or whatever it is, you know, it there is definitely a time too long for sure. Like if I'd stay in the same house since like 10 years later, like, really, the toothbrush is still out. That may not be healthy. Yeah, yeah. Um, but all there's just sometimes you you just have to kind of listen to your gut and go, like, it's just not time yet, or I'm gonna do it rashly and then I'm gonna be or in a hurry and I'm not gonna be in the right headspace and I'll regret it.

Ken 45:16

I just totally had a deja vu on the toothbrush thing because I remember actually the first probably easily the first three months, three, four months, I would I would alternate. I would use my toothbrush, really electric toothbrush, then the next night I would use hers. Wow, and then I'd use mine. I kept them out, I kept them both. I'm like, fuck it, I'm gonna use both of them.

Matt 45:37

I get well, and you know that's awesome, but like, and that's kind of the thing. Like, someone's like, Well, we should have just thrown the toothbrush out. You're like, I don't, and it's just this very visceral, like, and again, you can kind of feel it, right? You're like, I I know it's not supposed to be out. I'm not dumb, but you're like, but I just can't have it away right now. Enough other stuff had gone away, or the whatever it is.

Ken 45:58

That's a human, totally human response, right?

Matt 46:01

So I don't want I don't want people to think like we're walking around the week after the funeral D B sping. Yeah.

Ken 46:10

What are these? What are these shrines they're talking about?

Ben 46:13

Oh, I have I have a very special shrine. It takes the whole room, it's candles.

Ken 46:17

It's got candles.

Matt 46:19

I don't want to weird Ken out, but I have one for Ken. I'm scared. Um, but no, I think that there's something to that too, of like finding that right balance of like, you know, what's enough, what's not, what's the right level, and especially then you throw in the kid mix, right? You kind of have to go like, hey kiddos, like what do you, you know, like me realizing I'm like, oh my gosh, there's not a picture of her mom in a room. Probably should fix that, right? Like it's not a you know, a showstopper, but at the same time, like it's a and it's kind of right, it's kind of like it's weird that it's not there. So you kind of go like, maybe we should, right? And then but if you're like, oh, but I think the you know 48 by 64 portrait print might be too much, so somewhere between nothing and a wall. And it depends on the kids, too.

Ben 47:08

It's like Nadia wanted one, yep. Beckham wanted one because Nadia did. Yep. And Ryland doesn't give two shades. Yeah, yeah. And so like it's it's one of those things, it's a dynamic. You have to just like read it, go with it, and what works for one person doesn't work for another. It's a very dynamic thing. Um but yeah, it's you just have to accept it, embrace it, and read it. Like, and like so like and when you know it's the time, it's time. Like you just have to, and like if you start taking it down, you're like, oh no, then you're like, okay, then wait. That's not a big deal.

Matt 47:50

And I like we say it's dynamic too. Like, I I think there's also something like, you know, let's just say you know, you put the you put a picture up in the in the youngest one, like in our situation of the young one, and they don't like it, let's just say, right? You're like, okay, we'll just take it away for a while. It's not going away, you're not gonna shred the picture, and you're like, okay, maybe we'll address it again later. Or if they're literally like, and I've I've we've seen the widow post, right? Where people are like, the kid sleeps with the parents' picture. Great. There's yeah, you know, mine has not done that. And so I'm like, oh, is that bad? Is that good? I don't know, but that's just not her way. She's three, so you know, and so I think that, like you said, it's both fluid and dynamic based on how in it, I you know, your your oldest Ben or old enough to have some different griefs. You and I've talked about the youngest kind of being oblivious to it for now, but can also like have you as just real quick. You mentioned a little bit, you know, uh uh Beck Beckham, right? Wanted one because Nadia wanted one, right? Right. And then like Ken, have you noticed anything with your boys too? Like where it's kind of like like, oh, like, well, he's got the not that you wouldn't do like a t-shirt blanket one for each, but if you notice anything where it's yeah, either or they're vastly different ones, like I don't even want to, because that I've heard that about, and especially dads that are further down the road, where like one kid will be like, I don't want to talk about mom at all or a bit because I I definitely think that there's gonna be that change that that stage for sure.

Ken 49:16

Like, whole I think and it is happened with whole older kids, yeah, especially teens, sure. Like Holden's 12, he's on that cusp already, and he's already like on that. Uh like he doesn't want to talk about anything. Like you try to talk about him with anything, right?

Matt 49:30

And you'd be like, It doesn't involve me too. I don't want to talk like ice hockey.

Ken 49:33

He doesn't want to talk about it. Yeah, like, no, I'm not talking about it. Like, why do you have to bring that up? Like, you know, and it is it is a bit like that, but you gotta respect that because that's the season that they're in and the stage that they're in. Good point. Uh, I know I know that they have um like actually one of the things that I did do, which is kind of cool, and this is mine. Um, that when you get you can get these things done out of out of the ashes. This is a company in Canada that's called Forever Forever Fused.

Matt 50:04

Oh, that's cool.

Ken 50:06

So this actually was done. They have a glass blower, and they take the ash and actually make uh different designs.

Matt 50:15

For for those listening at home, it's it's like a cool green inside.

Ken 50:19

So it's a lotus. This is a lotus design. So yeah, a lotus flower. It has a cool 3D feel with like water on the sides, and like yeah, yeah, yeah. It's so cool. So they actually do this, and then they the guy he they're in BC and they they infuse a little bit, and I don't know, you can't really see, but inside, like it's very blue, like very three-dimensional, and there's actually a blue hue that goes around it, is so cool. And then the tips of the lotus is like little tiny starting to light up.

Matt 50:51

Yeah, however, you're doing water droplets. Yeah, they like light it is incredibly well done.

Ben 50:56

Yeah, it's super pretty.

Ken 50:58

So there's all kinds of there's the so when I showed this to the boys, there was online they could pick different orbs that you can get made, and um, so they picked out theirs, and yeah, and but and both of them really like them. They both of them got different ones, but you know, and then I got them uh these little LED light uh sort of little platforms you can sit them on, and then it it actually puts a light up through it. What was the what was the name of the company again? The company is called foreverfused.ca that's their uh their webpage. And uh they do all kinds of stuff, they'll do orbs, they do you know, be jewelry, they'll do any anything that they and they have a really cool process where you basically they send you a package to collect, and they only need like basically a teaspoon of ashes.

Matt 51:49

Yeah, that I to do it. Ben and I we talked about this when I was filling a piece of jewel, like there's something they don't teach you in any class ever. No, yeah, scooping that ash out of them.

Ken 52:00

Oh my god, yeah, I know. Or like I know the first time I had to do it. Well, because that was the thing. I did a camping trip that first summer, yeah. And my plan was we took a mason jar full of ash that I packed, and I had my one close buddy come over when we had to transfer it for the first time. And actually, I was okay, but I was like, Yeah, first time doing this, you never know how you're gonna feel. And but we took it, and then actually what we did is we we camped on the same section of lakes, interior camping, and I brought all these flowers that I had different her kind of favorite flowers, like sunflowers and griberas and stuff. And I packed them in the cooler, just the heads in paper towel. And then when we got to the site on the third or fourth day, they were still they were still good. So it's a good you put them in paper towel, put them in a ziploc, keep them in your cooler. They actually worked out really well. And then we actually did the heads of the flowers. We took turns, the boys and I, in the morning, this one morning, and our friend actually I and get this, I've got a whole drive of all these pictures taken that morning. Yeah, I haven't even looked at them, I haven't even developed them or got them. But anyway, we all took these these flowers and then filled them up with her ash and then set them out into the lake that morning. That's it. And then the current current just took them out. Yeah, yeah. And then boys really liked it, they enjoyed doing it, and yeah, and then right after the actually the boys went swimming, uh, and then down on this one point that there's like this rock they could jump off. And then I remember both of them, they were like, Oh, I saw I saw another flower, it's still floating by, and wow, like it was pretty cool. Yeah, it was a good idea.

Matt 53:48

Yeah, it's funny. It so my so I uh due to my lovely procrastination, so uh someone right one one of our good friends, they decided for her 40th birthday to give her one of those pieces of jewelry, we put the ash in it, right? I'm like an idiot. I waited and I waited and I waited. So I couldn't take the funeral home. And I remember calling the funeral home like a day or two before they needed it. And I was like, no, like, like, how many of these can I do? And the lady's like, you can do plenty. I'm like, no, no, no, like I think this is gonna become a thing. Like, some of our friends are gonna want to probably do it for her mom or sister, probably some for like a daughter, like I can't do, and you can hear like because I've never done this before, right? Like the funeral almost like kind of you'll be fine. And I'm like, sure, yeah, like her. I'm like, come on, no, like she has lots of friends, like there could be, I don't know, 15, right? So she's like, if you have any problems, just call us. So I pour a whiskey. I think the kids, the kids with grandma or something, I'm like, I gotta get this done. I got like 24 hours. So Marcy's friends who are listening, sorry. Uh anyway, and so uh uh I pour the whiskey and I open the urn and I'm like, Oh, now I see why she was chuckling because these jewelry, like they take like yeah, uh sixteenth of a teaspoon, right? Yeah, I mean, it is nothing, but like you say, like here you are doing this thing, and it's you know, I was someone was like, How did you do that? It will probably Ken, you probably say the same thing. I'm like, Well, like you kind of don't you don't like you don't really think about it necessarily because it's just something you need to do, so you do it, and then afterwards you kind of sit down and go, like, Jesus Christ, that was heavy. Like, I just moved ashes of the person I used to know and love and care about into for you.

Ken 55:29

I I can honestly say, I mean, the first, yeah, the first time I did it, and uh afterwards, um, like sitting, yeah, exactly. Sitting down and like going over. I went out on the deck and stuff, and I remember seeing like ash residue all over my fingers from doing it, and I I licked my fingers clean. Like I was just like, I'm not gonna brush this off. And I was like, Yeah, yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna do some of these ashes.

Matt 55:59

I don't know what I did because I had the same thing, and I'm literally sitting here going, like, well, I don't wash my hands off. I mean, maybe I didn't do anything. Yeah, I don't know. Like, because it's that thing where you're like, again, podcast, I'm gonna hold my hands up, you're like, uh, I don't know what the protocol here is. Right.

Ken 56:15

Yeah, yeah, exactly. But it is and the other, and then the other weird quirky thing I did, I remember, I don't know if you guys did this, but I I saved like and I still have I saved some of her clothes that she had. Actually, I remember taking her. No, no, no, not just her clothes clothes, but her her pajamas that she had, I remember under the pillow. I saved those, and I remember taking, I think it was a bra or something else in a zip. Ziploc bag, totally ziploc bag. Yep. I got them in one of my drawers. Like I have that ziploc from like two years ago. Yeah, you know.

Matt 56:51

Yeah, I know we might someone had the forethought to do that. Uh who was it? One of my one, someone who's helping me at the house, they had the forethought, they had the forethought to zip log like the last outfit she wore.

Ben 57:05

Or a perfume or something. Like I had a bottle of that that was in his clothes, and then I had a someone helping over to clean and they busted it. Oh, and I was like, Oh no, yeah. And I was like, Oh man, fuck. Because it it was a discontinued scent, so it just came out. So that was a massive bummer. Um, I did I went with the uh the blankets for the kids. Yeah, we didn't know. I didn't teach anything for myself. Yeah, um, I did stuff for them. And I got I told Matt this, Ken, like it was just it was crazy. Like I threw, like I threw the blankets out. Like each of the quilts had the exact same thing except for one item that kind of separated it. Um, like one had this running shirt that had like girls, girls, girls, and that was not his. And there was like one like a maze bulls from the zoo for Beckham. But like each one of them was sort of like, hey, that's mommy's this, and that was mommy's this. And like that's awesome. And like I didn't expect that kind of scene out of it. I thought they'd be like, Oh, that's that's cool. I was gonna I I had this whole thing prepared. I was like, this was mommy's dress for you know Rylan's first birthday, but they were already like they were on the recognize like right out of the gate. Nice, and like on things that I didn't even like, oh like then Night was like, that was mommy's favorite runnings vest or whatever. Like it was super cool. Oh, that's good.

Ken 58:25

Um, because like it I'm still I'm still waiting on mine. It's I got I got a whole I dude. I I've been I yeah, it's been over a year for me, and I'm getting two of them made, but the quilts, this woman that's doing it, she's actually even doing a scene. She's like, I'm like, I was like, okay, just piece it together and make it into a quilt. She's like, Would you like a scene? Like, and I'm like, what are you thinking? And she's like, How about how about like trees and then just teen chapel done in teen chapel? And then no, she's seriously, she's gonna do she's gonna do like a mountain sort of thing with a river running through it. That's awesome with the tree. And I was like, Oh my, all right, that sounds good.

Matt 59:04

Yeah, if you want to make that happen, you're like, I just thought you were gonna do squares inside of a big rectangle. Mine's a bit of squares and inside of a rectangle.

Ken 59:15

Well, and anyway, yeah, it's been taking a while for sure. And and this Mennonite, it's actually this older Mennonite lady that totally does quilts, but then of course, COVID hit, and I'm sure they would have had a quilting B, and I'm sure, but now it's like you're working on your own. I'm sure I'm yeah, I'm sure that's taken a lot longer than than planned. But yeah, no, those are great ideas. Yeah, I love doing that because I got all the clothes out of the closet and I put them on the bed and I let the boys pick through it. I just said, pick all the stuff that you like, and the hoodies and different things, and they got two big piles, and she she basically took it in her car that night and packaged it all up.

Matt 59:58

Yeah, yeah, we did with the clothes. Closing, I let people kind of go through it. Some things kind of like the not yet fucker. I just pulled the side. I'm like, I have an editorial license, like whether it's a picture that her mom was in and I want to do something with it later or whatever. But like fashion-wise, I'm like, I can't keep the suit she wore. I mean, we could, but like her first job interview right sides and everything. But so, but and then let her friends take some. And sure enough, invariably, probably once a month, they'll get a picture of like you know, wearing a scarf or wearing Barcy's running shoes or running, you know, leggings or whatever, which is nice because that's what you want. You want them to go. That's what you want. Yeah, you want them to go to where they'll be enjoyed and cared for or whatever.

Ken 1:00:38

But and the and the chance that you get to see them again. Yeah, absolutely. It's kind of awesome, right?

Matt 1:00:43

It really is. I mean, and so yeah, it's you know, the I love the blanket thing too. I think I think all the t-shirts are with my I have to ask her. I'm pretty sure my mother-in-law has them. She's she's a sewer, so she'll probably make a blanket or something out of it. But yeah, it's it's interesting going through the stuff too. Like it's uh it's a whole process.

Ben 1:01:02

I would third party that action.

Matt 1:01:05

I don't know. I don't know if I'm allowed to. In-laws, that's a whole other probably wrap that up. Um, yeah. Well, like I so I will edit this out. One of my supposed to like, it's supposed to clap because you'll catch it and edit. Um yeah, it's supposed to clap because then you'll you'll it's a distinct noise, is what someone's telling me. Um so I've been trying to do the picture stuff and I'm doing pretty well. And my mom was like, Why don't you just have your ignora do it? And I'm like, if she hasn't done it now, he ain't ever gonna do it. I'm like, so I'm like doing like it would more. She grew up pictures because they're just in a shoebox because her mom is never organized them. And I'm like, oh my god. So anyway. I don't know, but yeah, you know, so anyway, we'll add that part out, but yeah. I will I if it was up to me, I would have outsourced it, trust me. But I because I think I need to ask she's coming again, she's coming uh actually tomorrow. I need to ask her, like, hey, do you have those? Because we should probably do something.

Ben 1:02:10

Um I think I don't know.

Matt 1:02:13

I mean there's some things you just can't do. Someone asked me, like, how would you feel about like digitizing all the pictures, like just shipping them to some company? I said it'd be fine if there was a hundred percent guarantee they weren't gonna lose the important ones. I don't give a about Marcia or sorority picture, but if you lose the one of her and Blair, I'm gonna lose my fucking mind. Most are digital now anyway, but you still are like, what if we deleted or what you know what I mean? So yeah, that would be helpful. But we're gonna say that's not a good idea.

Ben 1:02:40

Because you have that kind of disconnect, and like and I'm sure for some it's nice as a therapy. It's like you said, like going through photos for some or versus going through the clothes and sewing it as a therapy for family members, but at the same time when you get that kind of involvement on an item like that, it can it they could latch onto it and not let it go. So like so because like because I because there were some items I know that I had that were in a situation like that with Gwen's mom, where it was she was not willing to let some items go. And and it was like, well, these would be better suited for a woman's shelter, or these would be better suited for a quilt because it has a load, whatever, but like they're like five other things, and but she's like and she just had a bag in her garage for like still has it. Yeah, and so like on something like that, you can like here are you take it to this third person that does a fantastic job putting things together. You go like, here, uh I have these items, here's what I'm thinking. Can you put this together? They'd be like, Yes, I can. I will do a wonderful job and take care of it and create whatever and they will do it and get it back to you. Right, yeah. Well, there's versus having that secondary attachment to those items, going if I cut into this uh and sew it, kind of like with the pictures, like if I go through the pictures, uh what is this gonna mean? And if so they have that same kind of attachment as they're going through and they're trying to sew into this to give back to you, yeah, it's a whole nother level of like part of the picture because that's that's exactly what my your hour, whatever therapist was saying.

Matt 1:04:32

Like, there's a time and a place to like sit and remember the pictures, and there's a time and a place to process the pictures, right? And there that's a thing too, because you don't you don't want to just sit there every time just flip through, like, yes, no, yes, no, you know, before high school, after high school, you don't want to just be a machine, but you also don't want to get a circle of people around to try to sort these, and they're like, Oh, they hold the picture for 20 minutes. Remember, Wayne, you're like, that's not what we're here to do today, because that's not helping me, right? Like, we gotta get and we can do that any other time once it's in the book that we can go reference or make a shutterfly or whatever it might be, or what's the other whatever one album you make.

Ben 1:05:11

So yeah, I think Stiflight owns all of it now. I think they do. Yeah, one at yeah, poor Kodak. Idiots.

Matt 1:05:19

Um, I think we're I think we're good. Uh anything else? I'm tired. See, I know I just realized Tommy.

Ben 1:05:25

I gotta get up and get ready to kids for school in the morning. You too. I'm like, oh, yeah, it's like one in the morning at your end and two in the morning.

Ken 1:05:30

He's on spring break, screw him. Yeah. That's right. I'm sleeping in like a mofo tomorrow. All you guys are getting up like suckers.

Matt 1:05:39

Hey, you hey what I'll call. Yeah, I'm an hour ahead. I will call him first around 4 45 in the morning. My time. You want to you want to give him a call at like you know, eight yours? Yeah, that'd be perfect.

Ben 1:05:48

Yeah, I'll follow up right a bit like after that because like Ryan will be banging on his door at about 5 30.

Ken 1:05:53

So yeah, I finally early morning nose kids. I hated that.

Matt 1:05:58

Finally crossed over.

Ken 1:05:59

I can't wait till I have a teenager that sleeps until 11. Oh, Samantha does. Holden got up at 4 a.m. from the time he was three till the time he was four. He did a year of 4 a.m.

Matt 1:06:14

actually Blair Blair was not four, Blair was up before six since we've moved into this house, and just recently, like in the last month, she now sleeps past like it's 6 57 a.m. I'm like, I'll keep it up, keep that C BD oil up.

Ben 1:06:32

Exactly. Keep giving her that C B D oil.

Ken 1:06:37

Wait, tinctures, whatever.

Matt 1:06:40

Like I was trying to think of something like essential oils, whatever you got.

Ken 1:06:45

You're not supposed to give them you're not supposed to give them ambient.

Matt 1:06:48

Wait a minute. Turkey, whatever, like whatever your jam. Yeah, if we eat a lot of turkey, go to sleep.

Ken 1:06:56

Oh, good lord.

Matt 1:06:58

Yeah, yeah. There's and I will say that's a whole I think that's a whole nother podcast. Is like, sleep will be your friend and find a way to get it because uh man, when you don't get enough of it, I horrible things happen. When Fitbit was telling me I was averaging less than five hours of sleep a night, I'm like, this is I know, and then I was watching like my anger, right? Like I'd get yeah, I'd just have glared at anything. And I'm like, this is not sustainable. Sleep deprivation is a torture technique.

Ben 1:07:25

Yeah, I mean a hundred percent.

Matt 1:07:27

Like so, if that's true, how did they learn it without ever going to like know it's a good thing? They were parents, they were like, Oh, I know it works.

Ken 1:07:36

That's right, I know it works.

Matt 1:07:37

No, no, I meant how did kids learn it's never had kids if they've never been to para anti-whatever training school.

Ben 1:07:45

Hey, I went through five kids. This just gonna rock through.

Matt 1:07:49

Trust me, you're gonna I can just see that guy coming to coming to torture training class. Hey Bob, I got this idea.

Ben 1:07:57

I haven't slept in a week, my brain's all over the place. We got five kids.

Matt 1:08:00

I've had less than five hours because I just leave for literally a week. I I I think I found it. I'm on to something. Yeah, yeah.

Ken 1:08:12

First, first three, four months, I was the same. I wasn't averaging more than about four and a half. It's crazy. Four and a half, five hours.

Ben 1:08:18

I try to set the house on fire twice. Because like, like I was oh, you forget well, like just random accidents, little things, and like setting the coffee maker on the stove, and instead of turning the burner over to the left, you turn to the right, so it's just on, but not on, and like these little things that would never ever happen, but you need to find this day that it's something like that.

Matt 1:08:40

I'll make it up. You were 75% more likely to either get a moving violation or in a car accident like within the first month of a loved one passing away because your grief brain is all defed up. Oh, Jack, yeah, that makes sense. Fun fact. So I did actually, it's funny. I got pulled over like two uh inside of what it'd be a month, two inside of two months, going to our first dad grief group. Yeah, the guy pulled me over saying I ran a stop sign. I'm like, there's no freaking way I ran a stop sign. Probably did. And he's well, where are you going? And I literally told him, I was like, Oh, I'm going to a grief group for people who've lost their spouse to cancer, who still have kids living at home. He goes, I'll be right back. Comes back, goes, it's just a warning. I'm sure he's like, I'm not even gonna challenge that.

Ken 1:09:29

Carry on. Is that is that when you screamed out the wind? Is that when you screamed out the window? You're fucking right, it's just a warning and peeled off.

Matt 1:09:39

I did, and then I got tased and was late for therapy session.

Ben 1:09:45

I knew that. Could you hit me one more time? One more time.

Matt 1:09:50

Hit me again, Hondo. That's right. That would be a lethal weapon reference for those that haven't seen that movie back at home. Anyway, so all right, gentlemen. Uh man, I really appreciate you guys. Uh thanks for taking the time. I know it's late. Hopefully, one day we won't be recording at like O Dark 30. Uh, Ken, you might get some like drunk dials uh next weekend, so be ready. All right. Oh well. Yeah. What was that? I'll be ready. All right. What'd you say, Ben?

Ben 1:10:17

Because I said messing me at the house. Yeah.

Matt 1:10:18

So well, we'll be at a wedding. Like, I think we're I really like the idea of doing like a happy fun recording before the wedding because we'll be all like, oh yay for Emily, and then doing one out in the parking lot.

Ken 1:10:31

I was actually gonna tell you guys this because I saw I got Emily's invitation. It was really nice. I yeah, I uh I and I texted her back. I said, you know, I really appreciate you including me, you know, just even including me in your invitations. It was nice of you, but our borders are closed, so I I'm not gonna be going anywhere. Um, but it is actually, and I'm actually kind of zen on this. It is actually the anniversary of Leanne's death on the 25th.

Matt 1:10:59

No way.

Ken 1:11:00

Are you serious?

Matt 1:11:01

Wow, yeah.

Ken 1:11:03

But I'm kind of like, well, you know what? I'm kind of glad that on that day someone else is going to going to a wedding, and then I know and they're gonna have a good time.

Matt 1:11:12

We'll definitely, we definitely won't drunk dial you, but we will we will be we'll make a toast, yeah. We'll keep you you could. I mean, we could, you know, you never know. You'll never know who you're gonna get.

Ben 1:11:24

Upside down by the fire pit, Ken. Yeah, that was a good trade.

Ken 1:11:28

That Ken was like, We were all stoned. Oh man. And you're like, Ken hasn't talked in a long time. I'm like, wait, I'd be like, I don't know, I'm all paranoid up here.

Ben 1:11:41

Or you're like, Ben, buy eight boxes of post O cereal.

Matt 1:11:46

Yeah, did you see what Ben did after a little late night edible? No, he'll send it to you on the WhatsApp.

Ben 1:11:52

Yeah, it's like I think the picture went postal on some of the Amazon. I need cereal, and I bought eight boxes of it. Wow. He's starting his own bodega.

Matt 1:12:05

He's he's one box of toilet paper away from Amazon. You gotta get your fiber, you gotta get your fiber in this age.

Ken 1:12:11

It is important.

Ben 1:12:13

Oh my god. That's right.

Ken 1:12:16

Gentlemen, throw some brand brand buds in there.

Matt 1:12:19

What was it? What was the one for Fire Night Live? Colin Blow.

Ken 1:12:28

I think that was on Dumb and Dumb, or that's it. It may have been Colin Blow. Yeah. Oh, that was his, yeah, that was the laxative game. Yeah, yeah. That's right. Then you're pulling a hairy dun. You're pulling a full one of the eases.

Matt 1:12:46

You know what's great about having an older kid? We've watched those movies now, and so I can now see her send her memes of stuff. And we watched Yes Man the other day in a great uh underrated Jimmy Jim Carrey movie. There's one episode one part that's a little awkward to watch with your daughter, but the rest of it's spot on. And so he tries Red Bull for the first time in the movie, and so now she gets the reference of like Red Bull. I really like Rebo. We should have Red Bull later. We should definitely get a Red Bull. I like Red Bull. I sent her that.

Ken 1:13:11

She goes, I get it now. I'm like, you get it now. Yeah. Alright, boys. All right, boys. Be well soon. Yeah. Yeah, you guys stay safe. Be well. Enjoy the wedding.

Matt 1:13:23

We will. And you'll be missed, but we'll uh we'll we'll be thinking of the we'll try to do an appropriate drink dial. Do it.

unknown 1:13:31

Yeah.

Ben 1:13:31

Can you you can because you can dial through WhatsApp? We'll make it happen. Yeah, you can. Yeah. All right, guys. We'll see you. Thanks, man.