S5E2 Grief, Guilt, and Finding Love Again

Jason opens up about losing his wife Heather unexpectedly, raising a daughter through grief, and the heavy guilt he carried in the years that followed. He shares what helped him heal, including therapy, hard-earned honesty, and learning to put down the things that were numbing the pain instead of helping him face it. The conversation also moves into something many widowed parents wrestle with but don’t always talk about openly: dating again, loving again, and blending a family while still honoring the spouse who died. This is a raw, grounded episode about healing, health, parenting, and what it means to keep living when life did not go the way you planned.

Ready for more than just listening? Explore the CLIMB framework and support options at https://solodad.life/

Transcript

Matt 0:00

There's an emotion that happens inside my chest. Yeah. When I get a widower on and we have these conversations, and all I wind up thinking to myself is like, how amazing is this that there's another guy that's willing to talk about the worst time of his life, be honest about it, share with others what he's been through and where he's at and where he wants to go. And I'm just a guy pressing record. Welcome to the Solo Dad Podcast, where we hold space and gather for widowers to share heartfelt, honest, and open stories of grief, their insights on navigating the journey after the death of their partner or spouse, loss, healing, and finding their way back to living again. I'm Matt Bradley, your host, and I am honored to join you as we explore the complexities of grief, the challenges of solo parenting, and the struggles of getting back to living, and maybe even some adventures of finding love again. Each episode we'll sit down with courageous dads who are bravely sharing their experiences, insights, and lessons learned along the way on this journey. Sharing how grief has impacted them, their children, and their lives. We might have a crosstalk conversation with widows and widowers sharing their experiences, the similarities and the differences in grief and being a solo parent. Occasionally we'll have grief experts on to dive deeper into the understanding of grief and healing. So whether you're a solo dad or solo mom or a friend of a solo parent, or you're wanting to just understand more about this journey, you're in the right place. Don't forget to visit our website, solo dad.life, for more resources, episode updates, and to connect with our growing community. You can follow us on all the social media platforms, find our group on Facebook, look for us on Instagram, Twitter, TikTok, and on the YouTube page. On YouTube, you can find more content and some behind-the-scenes moments. Just search the Solo Dad Podcast. And remember, don't forget to subscribe. Lastly, if you've enjoyed what you've heard or found it helpful or insightful, we would appreciate your support. Head on over to buymeacoffee.com slash the Solo Dad Podcast to help keep the show running and fuel our mission of supporting solo dads everywhere and giving them a space to have open and honest conversations. Thank you so much for being here, and let's dive into today's conversation. Welcome to another conversation on the Solo Dad Podcast. I'm your host, Matthew Bradley, and I was reviewing some stuff from a couple of seasons ago, and I realized one of the things I would like to make sure I continue to do that I maybe didn't do earlier in this season of the podcast was to express my deepest gratitude and thanks for everyone that supports the podcast, everyone that listens to the podcast, and also for everyone that is willing to be vulnerable and open, all those widowers out there that have been on the podcast. And this goes no different for um, I used to use the uh acronym my uh a big of mine, Jason Freeman, Big is Brother in Grief. Jason, appreciate you and thank you for us. I know we had we were gonna do it pre-summer, and then it was during the summer. And as we both know, as widowers calendars get crazy. So I'm so grateful that we're able to connect tonight. Welcome and how are you doing today?

Jason 3:54

I am doing okay, and I really appreciate us being able to finally catch up with us.

Matt 4:02

Well, and a lot of people have heard this one too before, where I'll say, like, you know, before. So just so folks know, we'll do a little quick little catch up. How you doing before I press record. And one of the things I think is very serendipitous that happened was due to our delay, we're now able to have a conversation that is going to take um, I think, a really cool direction, and there will be other podcasts kind of on the same topic. So what I would start off with is, and I love this, I'm seeing this from from from somebody from another widow group, which is Jason, how were you brought to grief in widowhood?

Jason 4:38

What was it? Brought uh unexpectedly.

Matt 4:42

Unexpectedly. Um Yeah, no, that's that's absolutely fine. I mean, that's that's yeah, uh, we right, we call uh we call it um tragic versus terminal. So you and Heather, how did you meet? And let's hear the story of Jason and Heather.

Jason 5:02

Um, I met Heather, I moved moved up to Massachusetts from Connecticut twenty five years ago now. Um and I got injured work and I was out of work for a long time. Um and I just did the old uh Met Shop thing years ago before it was really cool to do that.

Matt 5:28

So and uh I met her and kind of like connected and from there and then there's nothing else expecting and how long were you guys um together and married?

Jason 5:47

Um we were together for almost 20 years, married would have been 15 years when she passed.

Matt 5:54

That's amazing. And the the and then there was the uh introduction, arrival. Actually, arrival is probably an introduction, so it's like the kiddo came on stage. You and Heather have a daughter. Um uh how old how old was she when Heather unexpectedly passed away?

Jason 6:16

She was 13 going on 14.

Matt 6:18

13 going on 33. Yeah. Um and let's talk about the the relationship you and Heather in the in like the journey you guys were on up to her um dying. Like uh were you settled in the community? Did you had you found a nice groove? You know, those those sort of things, um, after you know uh going on nearly 15 years of marriage.

Jason 6:48

Um we had our ups and downs. Um the the best thing that ever happened to us was Patty. Um and it was just um we had so much promise and everything else, and like her health got bad, and she didn't want to kind of take care of herself and I I think that was my biggest regret is like I didn't push her to go to see her doctor's house. So that's my fucking guilt right there. It's like I yeah.

Matt 7:37

Remind us again how far out you are from uh Heather's passing.

Jason 7:42

It's it'll be four years this year.

Matt 7:44

Okay, four years. So in those four years, let's let's take just like a quarter step back. You guilt is a guilt's a weird thing. People have heard me describe it before. I'm stealing this again from someone else. Guilt is uh an emotional agreement we have with ourselves, right? It's a a breaking of a promise we have to ourselves, sometimes to some other people, but really it's our own. And it we it's self-induced. Like, yes, people can make you feel guilty, but really it's it's self-induced. It's one of the few emotions that like we throw out in the world and it comes back to us and we go like, oh, I feel bad about X, Y, and Z. So staying on Heather's health, um, in the past like four years, have you been able to diminish the guilt and regret?

Jason 8:30

Yeah, it it took me two years to get over it. It took me therapy that I went to I found a really good therapist through a friend, and it took me two years to actually acknowledge that it was my fault. Because I'm sure that you would go through the document stuff would you need to? I don't know what else to do.

Matt 9:00

No, that no no no no. So w for the what would you say to s to a fellow we'll just widower or widow that is we'll just we'll just say inside of two years that has guilt.

Jason 9:20

Take a breath realize that it's not your fault. You have to be sure of yourself that you're okay with saying it's not your fault.

Matt 9:37

That's really powerful. You have to be okay with saying it.

Jason 9:41

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It took two years for me to like say your fault. It's okay.

Matt 9:51

I don't need to laugh at that, but it's not I here's what's interesting. When you were going through that process, was it like repetitions of like almost a mantra of like if when you would get melancholy or you'd get sad or you'd be in I'm going to use these words differently, actively mourning, would you say to yourself, like, it's not my fault and things are gonna be okay?

Jason 10:20

Yeah, it it it it is, but um, you know, unfortunately I went down the uh dark rabbit hole. Um I asked my uh my stepmother because she lost her my my dad and her biological son and daughter. And well, all of them were like a 10-year span. Wow. Why don't you do it? She's like, don't go down the fucking bottle.

Matt 10:51

That's a good one. I there's a quite I wish I'm I'm gonna butcher it. There's something I it was a song that just came on, and what is it? Oh, I try to drown my sorrows, but they learned to swim.

Jason 11:00

Yeah.

Matt 11:00

This is great, it's in a song called uh uh good news from Shabuzy. I posted me crying with it because it just kind of hit me out of the blue one day when I was working.

Jason 11:09

Um That was probably the worst thing is I put down the bottle and I shouldn't have. But I did. And my my fortunately, my daughter was like aware enough to you know uh kind of take care of me. Um the the show that's on uh Apple Plus, um I can't remember um shrinking? Yes, exactly. Yeah, the first episode. The first episode, my my girlfriend and I watched it, and she looked at me and it's like no, I can't watch that shit. Because my her her oh, his daughter took care of him and like, yeah, no, no, nope, nope, can't watch it.

Matt 11:47

Can't watch it, yep. But it is it is a good show. Um, and I do like how they when they pick up right there where like some of us other widowers have been like some of the jokes, I don't want to ruin it for people who have seen it, but some of his um when they retell, they don't actually show it in the in the continue on in the episodes, but some of his um going off the rails, some of us joke were like, I didn't know that was an option. I didn't know I could just you know do all these things this character allegedly did before the show starts. I'm like, oh man, I didn't know one could do that. I I should have grieved different no. Um, you know, it's interesting though that uh I have other fellow widowers in our solo dad Facebook group that definitely and I I I don't know if I lucked out, I don't know what it is. I mean and alcohol, my relationship has been social and social only. Yeah, I lucked out. It was never carbs and pizza, that's a coping mechanism. Um, but but alcohol wasn't ever really a thing. And I also learned with the passing of one of my best friend's dad years ago, watching him try to drink his sorrows away, literally the day his dad died. He couldn't. He actually couldn't really get drunk. He couldn't, your body does some weird stuff deep in grief. And I know some other widowers have talked about, you know, I'll just very similar, right? They'll they're five years out and they're like, Man, that first six to nine months, it's just all me going back and forth between small or whatever.

Jason 13:14

I was um I was a bad drunk like phone seer.

Matt 13:18

Yeah.

Jason 13:19

I I functioned enough to get her to school, but after when she went to bed, yeah.

Matt 13:26

Well, that so let's let's stay on that just for a second. I think another guy, um I'm uh I almost said his name and I don't want to because I don't know. No, no, no. The guy in the guy in the uh the group, he basically said the same thing where it was he was fine when the sun was up and he had to work and he had to take care of his kids, and he goes, and the minute the kids went to sleep and the house got quiet, he goes, I didn't know what else to do.

Jason 13:52

Yeah, nope. I was drinking like I can't drink fanco anymore because I drink a lot of so much.

Matt 14:00

You've drank in your lifetime quantity at this point. Yeah, I pretty much you've reached the maximum level. Um, so what so obviously you you also said you did about two years of therapy. So as you were coping with the use of alcohol, going to therapy, probably did did those two things kind of coincide when you re kind of started to release the guilt and the regret? Did the drinking taper off, or was that the drinking it tapered off a lot?

Jason 14:32

It was through, you know, my therap, you know, my therapist that's like gotta come down, you know. You just like can't help yeah alcohol's gonna help with making worse.

Matt 14:45

Yeah, there's a great, great quote that I've heard about uh it's not just in grief, but basically you gotta feel it to heal it. Yeah. And alcohol, unfortunately, is is sometimes it can open up a pathway. I don't know how authentic it is to maybe some feelings, but I don't know how much of it is really you know cathartic and and healing. You know, I mean, it you know, we've all seen the person that you know cries when they when they may have one too many margaritas or something, but um, yeah, so okay, so between the therapy and that, and then just you mentioned it, and I think it's worth kind of saying again, and this comes up again in our in in several groups where we many of us, and again, this is about widowers, so I can say us widowers, and you mentioned about um Heather's own health struggles. Um we realize real quick how important all health is, whether it's mental, physical, emotional, uh, financial, like all the things. We realize, oh gosh, this is all up to me. And whatever your goal is, is probably something you should try to achieve, right? Where it's like, well, if you need to lose 10 pounds, you're the only one. Like there's there's no one coming knocking, and it's all up to us for our kiddos. So was that did that play in there as too as you kind of will call it come out of the fog of of it it it did a lot.

Jason 16:12

You know, it's like everything was like, holy shit, what the fuck do I do now? Yeah, um I had to it took me, you know, between my my uh my Illas were really great. I love them really great. They helped me so much. Um they helped set up like GoFundMe stuff and everything else, and I had to take a breath and it was like um the company I work for right now is like a little small company, but they helped me very much out there, take as much time as you can.

Matt 16:48

Yeah, that's a whole nother topic of bereavement leave in the United States, but that we'll use that one for another day. But yeah. So so a little bit of the aha moment of oh gosh, uh the I am, whether I want to or not, am fully responsible for Addison and myself. And the only way we can do that is finding what being healthy means to us and for our kiddos. And so that's about year two. Did you move at all? Did did you have to relocate?

Jason 17:20

Like I um we I stayed in the um actually the past year and a half has been kind of move for us. Um we um I stayed in the place that we could have for as long as we could.

Matt 17:35

Yep.

Jason 17:37

Um I wanted to leave Addie um in her school district for as long as she could.

Matt 17:44

Very reasonable.

Jason 17:45

Yeah, and you know, all of a sudden like we got the rug pulled out from us, oh we're gonna sell the house. Um so her and school district, and she's in her lass year right now, so she'll s I just wanted to keep that um her comfortability. Is that the right word?

Matt 18:06

Yeah, oh no, yeah, yeah. And continuity too, Larry. I mean, listen, when one of the parents dies, there's only so much change, both us the adults and the kiddos can handle. And I think there's this kind of throwaway advice of like make no major life decisions in the first year. Well, you and I both know grief could give a rat's ass about a calendar. I think it's I think it's more about you've already had the number one most stressful event of your life, which is the death of a partner or spouse. They do say public public speaking is is more stressful, but uh, I don't think they survey enough widows and widowers with like we'd much rather public speak than have that happen. But anyway, um, that I think it's more about like it, I think when you're talking about grief and timeline in that sort of fashion, it's more about hey, give your chance, give yourself a chance to let the cement of this new life curate a little, right? Listen, if you if you're going broke every month trying to stay in a house you can't stand, that's a different story, right? But if it's just like, well, I want to move because I feel uncomfortable here, it's like, well, maybe maybe give it six months, right? Like you and I both know it's not about a year, but I know people say make no, but heck, I mean, I'm sure you've seen, you know how many widows and widowers we see? Because you know, two cars, let's say one's paid for, one's not, or they're both car payments. And the widow or widower goes, like, I can't afford both. I don't want to get rid of my person's car, but like they're not here making money. So I think that, right? Yeah. So I think for continuity's sake, I think you know, staying someplace, especially when because she was what 13 gosh, right? She was 13 at the time. I mean, that's smack dab in the even if you weren't widowed, uh and we were friends, I'd be like, maybe if you could just hang on for a couple more years and not even if you just move around the corner, like keeping them in the school and giving them that that consistency and the continuity, I think, is super important, especially in the light of hey, you've just lost the other person that's gonna care about you, right? So um that makes sense. Okay, so um stayed put, and then um it was that did that captain go ahead, go ahead. Yeah, yeah.

Jason 20:12

No, uh, the one thing I want to say is like um Heather was a very good mom, and she taught Patty like pretty much all the woman things that she needed to know at the time. So when she passed, it was like I didn't have to do a lot. I had to do you know I had to be a mom and a dad at the same time. Sometimes it's not as easy.

Matt 20:43

Yeah. I um so 13, was she being was she in sixth, seventh grade? She was eight. She was eight, okay. So yeah, that's right in the middle of all of it, right? Oh man.

Jason 20:56

When when when she needed a mom the most, when she wanted to hate her mom at the same time and need her at the same time. Yeah.

Matt 21:03

Yeah. Yeah. That's I mean, listen, I you know, my dad died when I was 11, and and you know, I I anyway. The this is what I can tell you. There is never a good time for your parent to die. It doesn't matter if you're one or you're 99, it's gonna suck.

Jason 21:24

You know, I I've listened to like all the podcasts, and like you lost your wife when your daughter was what six months old?

Matt 21:33

13. She was diagnosed at yeah, 90 days and died at 13 months old.

Jason 21:36

Yeah, you know, it doesn't matter what's if it's like 13 months old or like 13.

Matt 21:42

It doesn't matter.

Jason 21:43

It's gonna be it's uh right.

Matt 21:47

It's it's kind of yeah, it's uh it's like when would you when's the best time to get punched right in the face? You're like never getting prison. You know, the third Wednesday in March is when I Like to get punched in the face. It's a merchant. Right? Like, I mean, geez, like there's never a good time. Okay, so your two years, um, you you've you've been doing some therapy. I'm assuming was Addison in some as well?

Jason 22:13

She she started about a year and a half ago.

Matt 22:15

Okay.

Jason 22:16

I I asked her multiple times, and then she finally said, yeah.

Matt 22:21

You know what's I what was her this is interesting because in again, referencing some other widow and widower groups and even the the solo parenting group on on Facebook, there are times, especially really early on after the death, um, people are going like, well, my eight-year-old doesn't want to go to therapy. And you're like, Well, it's not that they don't want to go to therapy, they just they're eight. They don't, they barely, you know, they can barely articulate, you know, their feelings already. I mean, at four, they struggle, right? And so was that kind of do you feel like that's where she was? It like took a little bit of maturation, a little bit of maturing for her to be able to because you were asking, which is the right thing to do, but like you can't lead it if she's healthy and not hurting herself or others, it's like, well, at some point you're probably gonna want to talk to about this, whether it's 18 months or 18 years later, this is a big event that you need to talk about. Um well, not need to, should talk to somebody about.

Jason 23:19

I didn't push, but I was like, I always asked her, I was like, do you need to go trump sweaty? She said, Yeah, it's fine.

Matt 23:27

So yeah. That's perfect.

Jason 23:30

My my therapist worked up with some another therapist, so great.

Matt 23:35

Yeah. Um, okay, so you're two years, you're kind of coming out of the the um, we'll just say we're coming out of the bottom of the bottle. Yeah. Um, you're in therapy. What was the next step after you accepted um releasing of the guilt and the regret and being okay with releasing the guilt and the gr regret? What would, if you can think back, what was kind of the next, so you've laid that down, you're not carrying that. What kind of continued to make Jason wholly healthy again?

Jason 24:14

I just want to move on. I was like, I was so tired of being like tired, depressed. Not miserable, but second life, I have to, you know, there's you know, I'm gonna be 52 with shit. And I'm just like there's so much, you know, they don't have a lot of life left, so much life to live.

Matt 24:40

So this is true. Um, although I don't know about you, the older I get, older gets older. Like I remember I remember when I thought 52 was old, like old, old. And as I'm getting closer, I'm like, you know, 52 is really not that old. No, no, no, I'll be 52 next next month, and I'm just like I mean, I'm I'm I'll be right, I'll be 49 later this month, and I go, I barely have stuff figured out. Like 49's not that old, folks.

Jason 25:08

Like no, I meant I met current at 49.

Matt 25:10

So there we go. So a good segue. So you you put the guilt down, you're in therapy, um, you've stopped, you've stopped trying to find the answer at the bottom of the bottle, and and you probably did say to yourself, like, okay, um, I've got I've still got miles left on the tire. What do I want it to be like?

Jason 25:30

Yeah.

Matt 25:31

And you meet Karen. Yeah. Yep. How did how did you guys intersect and tell us a little bit about her story?

Jason 25:42

Um, well, we kind of met I met her online.

Matt 25:46

You know. That's what all the kids are doing these days.

Jason 25:51

Actually, I'm actually I met Heather online.

Matt 25:54

Oh, really? Wow.

Jason 25:56

You know, you know, here's a little segue, you know, it's like Match.com. I'm not gonna give them any props, but I met I met Heather and Karen through Match.com.

Matt 26:06

So hey, there you go.

Jason 26:07

Yeah.

Matt 26:08

Okay. Yeah. Okay, so obviously uh you were in a headspace and a place to what was it that you were dating with the end in mind of trying to find a relationship, or because it had been a while, the other thing I I tell some folks is uh you might just need to learn how to date again because you haven't done it in 15 years.

Jason 26:28

Yeah, I um I you know here's the thing though. I when when Heather passed, I saw a couple of people that were divorced, which is the worst.

Matt 26:40

Very different, very different perspective, sure.

Jason 26:42

Yeah, but uh a few people that were um you know they lost their spouses, which is you know, we have that little connection, but you know, the divorced people are so much different from the ones that lost people, and I don't I don't mean to sound like an asshole when I say that, but it's a whole different spectrum.

Matt 27:03

It is it is for sure. So you you and Karen meet. Yep. Um, she is also widowed, correct? Yep. How at when you guys met, how far out was she from the death of her husband?

Jason 27:20

She was three years out. I was I was pretty much like eight months out. You know, I don't know that sounds really bad, but nope, it doesn't.

Matt 27:30

Here, I'll repeat what I've said before, and you've heard the podcast. Listen, there's just one rule about dating after the death of your partner and spouse. You can't bring the date to the funeral. Everybody else has no idea what you've been through and what you're going through. And right, whether it's I mean, here's here's the irony, right? I'll do a shout out to a post that'll probably come out on my social media here pretty soon. Uh Liam Neeson, right? Famous actor, is it sounds like he's dating Pamela Anderson right now.

Jason 27:58

I just watched fucking I just watched uh Lisa Love the last one.

Matt 28:02

Yeah, um, and people are still saying, like, well, it seems kind of soon. I'm like, it's been years. Years, and then you've got then you had one of the other ones that come to mind is Bob Saggett's wife, right? The comedian, he died, and like this lady started dating, I don't know, we'll go inside of two years, and people were lighting her up. And it's like, so which is it? Seven years isn't long enough, and two years is too short. People like so. I go back to people just don't know, right? And whether it's you know, whether it's it's it's seven months or seven years, it's more about recognizing that, and it sounds like you were in the middle of doing this, that my grief is not going away. And whatever I do next in a relationship, it's gonna be right there with me. And if I'm still processing it and dating, great. If I need to not date so I can process it, that's okay too. But if you think you can date and not have dealt with any grieving, that's gonna be a problem, right? Wait, right. It's just it's it's gonna it grief's gonna come out at some point. So it's better to have it being dealt with in a healthy way than I'll just go 10 years down the road, you're like, whoa, I really should have talked to a therapist, right? Yeah, uh so okay, so you guys are both um both widows. You and and then she um she also they had kids, right? They had they had have they have kids, they have they have kids.

Jason 29:27

Yeah. Her son is at Swinney or uh Amherst, UMS Amherst. And her daughter is a sophomore in in high school, right?

Matt 29:40

In high school. And so basically the kids are it's like you got two year gaps, right? Is kind of what we talked about. Yeah.

Jason 29:45

Well, um, her son's my daughter is two, and then her daughter's two. So 16, son, 18, going on, you know, 37.

Matt 29:58

Listen, I have an eight-year-old going on 37, it's a lot. Um, so let's real quick, let's let's so this is like I said, this is the serendipitous part that I really kind of want to dive into. So you start date, you start dating Karen. Yeah, what like how did you both, because she's widowed as well, and I look forward to maybe shameless plug of getting you guys both on to talk about this, but how like what did that making space because we've talked about it before on the podcast where you know um Addison wouldn't exist if you had never been married to Heather. Karen's two children wouldn't exist if she hadn't been married to her husband, and so the person you were and the person you became through grief wouldn't exist either. And so one of the interesting parts is like making space in a relationship for a new person, but without because you talk about divorcees, right? There's a little bit of bitterness, there's a little bit of anger, um, without like ejecting them from the history, right? Like, I think a lot of divorces, the people like they just don't even acknowledge the person ever existed, and you're like, but you have two kids with them. Like, I don't know if you know this, but they're here. Um, so how like can you recall um as you guys started to realize this was something that was going to be serious? Like, what did that look and feel like? And how did you I think I said it earlier before we recorded, like literally and figuratively make space for your deceased partners?

Jason 31:41

Well, we just kind of did, you know. Um one of the things that you know Karen and I both have in common is like we're not stupid, but both of our you know, between Heather and um and Karen Smirk, they were like superior, like really, really intelligent. And then we both joke, it's like, how do the two dumbasses get left with the most brilliant kids?

Matt 32:07

And how the fuck did we you're preaching to the choir on this one, man? I like I have two amazing daughters, and I go, like, listen, there is no illusion of who's in charge and who's the smarter person in this room at all. Like, I am not, I don't even I don't even pretend.

Jason 32:22

I'm like, nope, like they are definitely yeah, no, it's like we we go flip both look at each other every now and then. It's like, how the fuck did we wind up with the two smart kids? Right and the two dumb asses were left.

Matt 32:36

Right, right, right, controlling the ship, right? It's like who let the who let these monkeys drive this thing?

Jason 32:42

Well so yeah, no, I I always told um I always told Addison that like I was like she's the captain, I'm just the navigator, so it's like I'll kind of like you know you're you're leading your life, but I'll point you in the right direction.

Matt 32:57

There you go. Yeah. So you both kind of came into the same. Um what like or I think I and because she's widowed, I think it it it opens the door to the where again you you said you went on some dates with divorced people. Like there is no well, there's very little anger. Um I'm just I'm just mad that Marcy hasn't done anything around the house in seven years. I mean, nothing. She hasn't done anything. She just I'm like, geez, do some laundry. Anyway, um, there is no anger. So when you guys talk about your previous people, it's very, I'm assuming it's very like, you know, well, Heather did this and Mark did that. And it's not a comparison thing. So when I'll just because you're you're in this situation, so I'm gonna ask you, when Mark comes up, what does that feel like to you?

Jason 33:57

Well, you know, in a weird way that I think that Mark and I could have been friends.

Matt 34:03

That's beautiful. I think there's something there. I think it in a lot of our widow groups, I think that obviously, just for statistical people, statistical reasons, people are gonna hear me say this. It's approximately, depending on your age brackets, it's one to eight to one to ten widowers to widows. Yeah, that's just the way it is. I'm sorry. But so mostly it's widows in these groups, and they'll say a lot of times when things are going well, they didn't mean to. But like one lady just posted, she goes, I must have a thing for plumbers with facial hair because this is who I wound up with, and that was my husband, right? She goes, I wasn't seeking it. And I'm like, Yeah, there's something about it's probably about the quality of the person, I would think, right? Like, yeah, there's a type. Like, if you're you know, if you're if you like someone that is altruistic and they go to soup kitchens and they're really nice to old people and dogs, you're probably gonna wind up with someone who is nice to old people and dogs. I mean just because I watched a movie the other day that made that joke. But so okay, so when he comes up, you you it's almost like is it kind of like a feeling of like that's a guy I could have been friends with that I just never had a chance to meet.

Jason 35:09

Exactly.

Matt 35:10

Wow, that's awesome.

Jason 35:12

Yeah, and you know, um you know, Heather was she was a different person. Um it would take a lot of people to like really know her, but um but I think between you know between what um Karen and Mark had, and Mark and I could probably be drinking here, smoking a cigar and you know, you're gonna take a little bit. I think maybe that's why like her and I had a little bit uh Karen and I had a little bit more than she's like she kind of missed her her husband. She missed Mark and I'm not saying not particularly ever replace Mark, but kind of remind her of him.

Matt 36:03

Sure. Yeah. Well, you know, in in I'm always conscious of not every you you mentioned, right, as so many relationships do have ups and downs and goods and bads and positives and negatives, and hopefully at the end of it, um, the positives outweigh the negatives and the arrow is pointing in the right direction. I think um one of the things that a lot of people in our in our widow groups and widow groups is so many of them, myself included, had such an amazing relationship. And like comparison is the thief of joy, right? Like looking at one thing and going, like, well, I wish, and so I'm not walking around trying to replace Marcy, but at the same time, and similarly with you and also with um Karen, of the feeling of I know what a good, supportive, long-running relationship should look and feel like, right? Like because you you did it once before, and so it's this very odd, like you're right, you're not replacing Mark and Karen's not replacing Heather. Yet there are enough similarities to create a formula for success in a relationship because you had it once before, right? Again, ups and downs, I understand, but like you know, and I know that's not everybody, so I'm I'm I'm very aware that some people had very trying relationships, and that's a different, it's a different type of conversation. But I think for so many of us, because it was we still loved our person, we still wanted them to be around, um, that when they die, we realize you're like, well, I would like something that feels like that again. And is and kind of I'll kind of lean into that feeling. When you and Karen first met, or was there was there a moment where you're like, wow, this really does feel it's right, it's similar but different? Like, I'm trying to find the right words.

Jason 37:52

She reminded me of Heather, it's like good stuff, like really good stuff.

Matt 37:57

That's a really good way to put it. And um Because Karen's gonna come with her own negatives. No offense to Karen. Oh, yeah, right, right. Like no one's perfect. I mean, yeah.

Jason 38:08

I saw on Heather, I saw on Karen's same time.

Matt 38:11

That's really awesome.

Jason 38:13

Yeah. But and then the you know, there's always a negative thing, so but she also saw the good things that she saw.

Matt 38:22

That what a you what an interesting that'll be an interesting kind of segue that I think I might use in our group, which is for those that are in new healthy relationships, is it that you see a lot of the because I'm I'm trying to stay away from like any sort of words that would describe it because it's all about feeling, right? Like I don't want to be like, well, they're kind like my wife, and my wife was kind. It's it's just more like there's something about Karen. I like how you put it. You didn't you didn't say anything specific. You just said you said what I saw in Karen reminded me of the good in Heather. Yeah, it's very generic, but very specific at the same time, which I think is beautiful.

Jason 39:03

Yeah. And you know, you know, there are the asshole colonies, but you know, of course, but you see, but you see more the good than the bad.

Matt 39:12

Yeah, yeah. And they and right, they're gonna, you know, they may have a couple more goods that you your previous person didn't have, and you're like, wow, that's kind of nice to have, but uh, you know, I accepted my person for better or worse, as they say, right? And so, like, well, yeah, that is that's different, and it's nice to have, and they're gonna have some negatives. So, okay, so when as you um how long into dating Karen did you did you kind of go, oh, this this could this could be a thing?

Jason 39:39

Oh, it was I I we both knew pretty quick. Okay. Both knew pretty quick, but we also went on a two and a half year journey of like on, off, on, off, and then here we are. We're on, yeah.

Matt 39:54

On and stayed on. Um what was your message to uh explanation? I'm trying to think of the right. What was yeah, what was your message to Addison about you dating and then like what did that um introduction and blending of the of of kids look like?

Jason 40:18

That was a little hard. We had, you know, when I first met Karen, we kind of I really eased her into it, and you know, she my Addison wanted to, you know, have a certain Halloween costume at the time. And Karen's really good into Halloween and stuff, so we kind of like that was a segue and nice.

Matt 40:43

She met um Karen's daughter, who was pretty young at the time, but they kind of like you know, it it was a very long prisonership, but I think that's important, and also was it um uh the advice I've received is because I did it with Marcy, my oldest, um, was you start off kind of neutral. Sorry, you start off at a neutral site, and there's a time limit, right? So like you don't bring the person into the home and it's like well we're gonna have dinner, we're gonna watch a movie, you might stay till 10, you might stay until midnight. It's like no no no, you meet at a in a neutral spot so that everyone can walk away from it, and if it goes terrible, it's fine. If it goes great, it's fine, but like there's a definitive time. So I don't I like you said it was a long like it was longer or something like that. I don't know because I j you've you've listened, you've heard me joke, I'm like, I don't know how to do like do you just introduce them on the first day? Because what if you find out they're a jerk to your kid after nine months of dating? I'd be like, well, crap.

Jason 41:44

No, no, fuck no. It's uh right, yeah. Uh it it was you know, because um Karen and I had a little bit of like up and ups and downs, but the kids all met each other within um like nine months.

Matt 42:03

Oh, that's not that I don't think that's long drawn out, and it's but especially when they're older, right? Like when they're little and you've got like you know, I'm just used like you know, if I had met somebody when Blair was two, uh she's not gonna remember anyway, right? Whether we went to coffee and Blair was there or not, or we met at a park, she's two. But when they get a little older, you I think there's there's a good reason to be a little more um judicious and guarded about because they're gonna remember, right? For better or worse, right? So like if you bring I'm just gonna use this if someone brings Suzy by and you date for six months and your kiddle really likes Susie, doesn't work out, then you bring over um Sarah, right? And the kid's like, well, no, Sarah's terrible, and I where's Susie at? You're like, oh crud, because they're old enough to express that, right? So I don't think nine months is too long. And I think you said also up and down. So like if there's some things you guys were working on, I don't think that's I don't, I don't think that's terribly long, but I I get it. It I think probably for our general society, they're probably like, wow, nine months, you're like, Well, but there weren't babies here, these are these are mostly fully functioning small humans.

Jason 43:12

Yeah, and it was you know, it's been I've known Karen for going on three years right now, and you know, we padding I moved into her house back in June. So so yeah.

Matt 43:24

So how's how's that like good keep staying with the blending theme? How how did that how did that look and feel?

Jason 43:32

It was chaos.

Matt 43:36

Love it.

Jason 43:37

I have a great name and oh good gravy. Oh boy, and she has a small pony. Yeah, no, house pony. We called it house pony, but um, but she has two corgis, so that was Oh my goodness. So that was a little, you know, it was it's interesting.

Matt 43:54

I think corgis only come in pairs. I don't think I've ever seen a corgi by itself. I think they just come. Coupled up. I've never ever seen someone as a single Corgi. It's like a two for one, maybe. I don't know. Anyway. So she has two Corgies. You have a great Dane. Now the oldest, her oldest is away at college, right? Like more or less full-time. Right. So, okay, so not quite as moving all three in. Do they each have their own space still? They do, yeah. Okay. That's nice. Okay.

Jason 44:22

Yeah. When uh when her son comes home, actually, her son was a really, really good with Daisy when Daisy's my great dane.

Matt 44:30

Uh-huh.

Jason 44:31

He choked her out, you know, just like kind of like that was his thing. It's like, I have to take Daisy out and just like get her out and walk around.

Matt 44:39

It is pretty cool to walk a great dane. I mean, or ride it, whatever you want to do. It sucks.

Jason 44:46

I'm not gonna lie to you. It's it was not a good thing. But he did really, really good.

Matt 44:51

That's awesome.

Jason 44:52

He did really, really good.

Matt 44:55

How did you know it was time to either talk about that or it was time that this is something that could happen? Because I've I've joked again on the podcast and and on other Zoom calls where I'm like, I'll just have someone move in and see if they can handle the chaos for three months, and then we'll date. Because but that makes no sense, right? I'm like, just come in because it is complete. You know this. I mean, you're running around, you're trying to balance calendars and work and kids and in-laws and family, and you go like, if you can handle this for three months, then yeah, let's go get a nice dinner. But if you can't handle me at my worst, you can't have me at my best. Like, how did you know? And this is only even for me a little bit, like, how did you know it was it that you were at that point? What did that conversation look and feel like?

Jason 45:36

We knew back last December like you know, it's it's time for us to uh you know take this to the next step. Um, I had to rent a uh six-month rental here in Massachusetts here on the South Shore, so just to get my very straight, my famous history, and um But you know we discuss it a lot. It's like you know, it's not just like there's no other time present, I guess is okay.

Matt 46:10

Yeah, it I think it fall it also falls in that thing of like, um and I love this quote, ready isn't a feeling. Ready is ready is a decision. Yeah, right. Yeah. You're never gonna feel ready. You just make the decision, you become ready in the decision, right?

Jason 46:28

And I and I think we uh we made the uh she's like let me know how serious you are about this apparently.

Matt 46:43

And I think that I think you know what I was I was thinking too, like depending on the age of the kids, like some people you've probably heard this in other from other widows and widowers, when they have kids, especially if the well, I'll just go teenagers and up, we'll just tween, right? 12, 13, 40. Some of them will say, Well, I'm just gonna finish raising the kids and then I'll do the thing. And I just had a thought of like, well, that's actually I don't know if it's worse, but that's a whole different dynamic to go like, oh, kids are out of the house, and then a year later you go, like, hey, this lady or this guy's moving in, and they're like, Wait, what? Like, where now you have a little bit of a runway where like you guys are uh I'm using air quotes for those that will watch this um on the video or not, I'm using air quotes for a little bit you're a normal family, whatever the fuck normal means. But like you get to have some normalcy so that when Addison goes away to college and she comes back, it's not a different house, it's it's you and Karen's home, it's your now home. And so I think there's there's some weight to that. I think there's something to that because yeah, it definitely is, it definitely is, you know, like all the kids know each other now.

Jason 47:48

Yeah, so they're like, you know, yeah, everybody's two years apart, but they all know each other. They always each other.

Matt 47:57

I'm sure there's some times when you're like, yeah, it probably would have been better to live it, you know, keep these kids separated, but you can't keep them separated forever, and they've got to eventually you gotta help them with it too, but they gotta find ways to get along. And Addison, kind of like Blair, is an only child. And so, like, jokingly, what was it? Did we were doing something? This has been a little bit ago, but like one of her peers, one of her friends, I think, it was one of her friends, has a sibling, and the sibling was doing something, like taking a Lego or whatever, right? And I was like, Yeah, you gotta you when you have siblings, you gotta share. And all Blair was like, I don't think I want one of those. I was like, You gotta break. I mean, you're the only one here. I mean, your sister's 14 years older than you, so it's not really like you guys are both trying to, you know, play with the same Lego set at the same time. But it is, I think that blending there. I hadn't really thought about that before because I did think when people would say, Hey, now if they're you know, if they're 18 and they're a senior year, maybe you just wait 12 months, but um, I wouldn't not introduce them, but there is something to like becoming that family unit because they're gonna fall back on that in, you know, I'm gonna pick random years in seven years and in 14 years, they're gonna have a relationship, hopefully a good and healthy one, um, with their their blended siblings. And it's something that if you didn't, if you didn't cross that threshold, it wouldn't happen. And I'm kind of thinking, like, you know, I'm sure I didn't have this happen my life. Well, I guess I did a little bit with my mom, but um, my mom called one time and was like, hey, you know, this house that you guys, you and your brother grew up in, it's getting a little too big, a little too much for me. How do you feel about me moving out? And me, my brother at the time, I think, was still in the Navy, and I was living in Chicago. I'm like, do what you need to do. Like, I was like, I don't know. Like, like, mom, I mean, right. I was like, sell it, move. I don't like burn a match, pay your insurance. Um, I don't, I mean, I care, but I appreciate, but it was funny because but then I did realize the next time I went to my hometown to visit her, she's living in a place that I hadn't I had no memories of. I was because I knew I think she was in an apartment at the time. And I was like, Well, this is weird, like, but I mean it was my mom's life. But there is something to that where if you wait, um, if you wait till you're ready, you're never gonna do it. It's kind of like having kids, right? People are like, when's the best time to have a kid? Now, whenever you think just now, right? Never, it's never and right now. It's both at the same time. There it's never a good time. When you have enough money to raise them, you're too old and you have no energy. When you're broke and have all the energy, there's no good time. They're just gonna, no matter what happens, they're gonna take all of your food and money and make you feel old and fat. At least that's what I do. Um, okay, so you guys uh just just now blended the house, or I guess in June. So it's been it's been a minute, but what let's let's go with a let's go with a high and a low of like what was like this, like was there a moment when the kids were all together and you were like, this is gonna be really great for all of us humans involved in this new relate, not new, but this the relationship as it moves forward.

Jason 50:54

Yeah, we had a a really good um it was total chaos when that first weekend we moved in because dogs and everything else.

Matt 51:01

Sure.

Jason 51:02

We had a um a pretty good nice dinner. Probably about a week after everybody together and settled and everything else. And that was pretty much that was a good time. We um we I bought um Addison a new bed for her for the new room, and um Karen and um Karen's daughter and Maddie all kind of like put it together over like a week and a half because it was funny, it was like slide and tapby and screw this one and right right. So they they all kind of bundled over that which you know um the worst probably wouldn't be my dog Daisy with me.

Matt 51:57

Just running the house and just going full ro rough shad through the house.

Jason 52:01

The dog isn't an asshole, and she's like she is like she has the worst tail in the world. She worst you know, she will you know pinpoint the most sensitive part in your body and she'll hit him.

Matt 52:16

So that was not fun. That was that was a rough time for everybody. I love it. It's the dog. This just huge dog is the is the bucket dog. So what so I I want to kind of circle back real quick. So as you're as you're moving in, and it's been it's been it's it's not I don't think any of this is excuse me, too soon, but like I realized when I moved to Denver there were some things that had gone that that were left on the walls when before I moved here, just kind of out of habit, right? Like stuff, Marcy stuff, if we will. As you, and it's been some time, so hopefully, like Mark's clothes aren't in the closet, you know, two, three years later, maybe, but that that's that's that no, I know, but I'm just saying that would be for that would be for Karen's therapist to deal with. But what was that like as you went from space A, your previous uh home with you and Addison, and I know it wasn't you and Heather's home, so there's a right, there's an in-between, right? There's a a spot a stopover. When you moved in, was there were there things that you were like, I really want this out, it's you know we like how how did that process kind of work?

Jason 53:29

We purged a lot.

Matt 53:31

Okay.

Jason 53:33

There was like let's put it this way. Um, I did two and a half dumpsters of 40 yard dumpsters of shit. Wow. It was just like it was time to let go of all the stuff.

Matt 53:48

How okay, so why how did that feel?

Jason 54:01

Sadly, that's the only way you can actually, you know, there's nothing that like for like years of like, why didn't fucking keep the shit? And I I smashed to be honest with you, I smashed some of the stuff.

Matt 54:26

Actually, that does not I that does not surprise me because um unfortunately in our society currently, getting mad is physically, like I love rage rooms, I think they're a great idea. But there is something about breaking it through I I'd say grief and anger. I wouldn't put anger first, right? Like, and there's something to that, there's something cathartic about it. It literally changes how this thing exists in the universe, right? It was a thing and now it's a part. I also think journaling, that's why writing is powerful, right? Because two objects had they never intersected, would never create a thing. So you take pen to paper, it changes both the pen or the pencil and the paper, because they wouldn't do that if you didn't do something to them. So um, how do what was can can you kind of segment like were you going, oh, this is a keep Heather? Uh sorry, Addison's gonna want this stuff of Heather, so that goes in a box. Uh, this is the story of Heather and I, so that's just like in a keepsake box so that Addison can know about our life, and then that just kind of goes away. And then like how did that because obviously I'm guessing at this point you're not like dealing with clothes of Heather, but you're dealing, and also you're going into a house that I'm assuming Karen has dishes and has a blender, so it's like, well, we don't need two of everything. Because it's what happens when two adults get together. It's when happening when me and my wife get together. We're like, how many freaking toaster ovens do you need? By the way, hang on, what I want you to answer that, but I want everyone to know. I moved, this is not a joke. I moved from Chicago to Northwest Indiana, Northwest Indiana to Denver with four crock pots. I don't know why one needs four crock pots, but I'm unpacking in Denver going, in what scenario? Now, two do I get one's like for dips, like it's a small one, the other one's an actual crock pot for roasts and whatever. And I'm like, so what are the other two for? Hold on, not little ones. So my older daughter got one, the other one was a goodwill. But I'm like, who needs four crock pots? But so as you're going, like, kind of walk me through like how you separated or or how that how did that process go?

Jason 56:34

There were certain things that Helen and I talked about like years before that she got down from her her family.

Matt 56:41

Like family heirlooms, if you will, or family mementos, yep.

Jason 56:46

Totally understand when she's able to when I make the decision, she can do whatever she wants without appreciate them or when she's in a position to have them.

Matt 56:56

Yep, got it.

Jason 56:57

There's a couple of things that I kept from Heather that I knew that Heather would want Eddie to have. And Addie wasn't you know really keen on the idea at the time, but I mean, you know, she kept them in, you know, like a pair of pair of Heather had a pair of dumb parts that you know she had forever. It's like when she got when she passed, and it's like those and I'll keep them separate. You know, when Patty had her senior pictures done uh a week and a half ago, um she walked.

Matt 57:35

So you know what I did, uh our first family photograph after Marcy had passed. Marcy's birthday is um St. Patrick's Day, so she always had an affinity for green. In the background, she had a green, like nice uh early winter coat, late fall coat, right? That she had and it was green, and it's just in the pictures. And if I don't tell you, it's just because we're taking fall pictures, it just looks right. That is in a box for Blair, for whatever. And that there's something so beautiful about that. Where and I love the whole like hidden in plain sight. So Addy's wearing earrings, totally normal to do, and if she doesn't tell anybody, they won't know, right? And you know, and she knows, and now everyone who listens this podcast will know, but other than that, small group, no. Um, but it I love that because that that's kind of how I have my house set up now, where there isn't like this blatant, like in your face homage to Marcy and our life together. It's just kind of hidden in plain sight. Like there, I have some artwork, like just whatever art uh frame stuff. And if I didn't tell you about it, it just looks like something I hung up. I got it off art.com, I got it from Michaels, it doesn't matter, right? You just wouldn't know, but I know that it's a thing of Marcy and I'm life together, and it looks nice, and there's nothing wrong with it. And I'm not like if someone told me to take it down, I'd be like, oh yeah, it's fine too. But like I love that. So okay, so you went through some stuff, at definitely some family stuff. Yeah, and then what was was there a bunch of stuff when you were okay? So keep going. Sorry, keep going.

Jason 59:06

No, no, I I kept Heather's wedding dress for you know, just because, yeah. It's there, but it doesn't matter if she does or if she doesn't, you know, it's it's there. But I I wanted to keep that just because you know because you know Heather kind of also mentioned that like it's there because she wants to use it, it's there.

Matt 59:34

And they do there's some amazing when the time comes for Addison, there are some really cool repurposing stuff they can do. Yeah whether it's the veil or it's a thing or it's a shawl. There's so many cool things they can do with wedding dresses, or even clothes in general. Like if there's like a a really a very a very heather-esque outfit that you kept or whatever, and you're like, well, Addison's never gonna wear it, you're like, Well, but they can do some cool stuff. Like, so anyway, that's cool. Okay, so wedding dress, okay. Um, keep going.

Jason 1:00:03

Um, you know, I I kept uh her Doc Martin's boots, and that's where she wore to whatever uh see in the picture, so it's like you know, and that's what Cameron kind of like she looked pushed on it and she's like, What do you think that Patty would like to like kind of as a promo promo or something?

Matt 1:00:24

Yeah. And then what what was the line of things that you broke?

Jason 1:00:33

Oh there was cell phones. My my R bad. I I fucking just I had uh junk guys, you know, yeah, yeah, g yeah, the whole the hallway junk guys, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Matt 1:00:54

Uh-huh.

Jason 1:00:56

Get out of the way, I don't want to see this ever again. Um that was one of the things. Um this is my nineteen eighty-seven fucking fucking mic. Fucking my kingdom.

Matt 1:01:34

That's a whole I have I I uh I don't know. I think we're that's a whole nother I think something happened between the greatest generation, right? So people that came back from World War II. This is a whole nother this is gonna be a podcast all itself. Oh yeah. So they couldn't throw things away because it was good and you could repurpose it, right? Like my great uncle fixed everything. So did my grandpa's. It was uh right, they had farms. They anyway, yeah, and then so then it's kind of spills over to like our parents, where they were kind of like, Well, I can't really fix a word processor, but we should keep it, right? It was this weird kind of overlay, and then you skip us. I'm just gonna skip our our kind of age group right now, right? And you get to like your your uh your uh uh I'll just say stepson uh in college, and like my older daughter that's in college, and they're like, Yeah, if you need it, you just go on Amazon. Um, generally speaking, right? You just go get a new one. If the cord breaks, you don't you don't solder the cord, you just buy a new one. And then you have us in between where you're like, Well, aren't I supposed to have a bucket full of random nails? And it's like, no, you use them and then throw them out, yeah, right. And so, like, I'm in the same situation right now where I have yearbooks because for whatever reason, whatever schools we went to growing up, I have yearbooks from second grade on.

Jason 1:02:47

Yeah, who the hell is gonna look? It's funny that you say the screw thing because she kind of fucking poured jar stuff.

Matt 1:02:57

Right. Well, because you never know when you're gonna need it. And then I'm literally going, like, what I'm not woodworking, I'm not building anything. Like, I live in Denver. Like, there's no, I'm not making a shed or a boat or a wagon. Like, I don't know. So it's this weird where we kind of we're in between where like we we we we were taught to not give things like get rid. And the other one was like, well, if you're gonna get rid of it, you have to get rid of it in the right way. At least, yeah. So I struggle with I'm like, well, I can't just give everything to goodwill, right? Or I go, like, well, I can't put everything in the garbage, and then I see like a younger person, I mean, their trash is just full. I'm like, they put a couch in there, you're not supposed to do that. Oh yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah. So that's it. Okay, so so uh and I want real quick, I wonder, did when you were bro when when when things when you were exercising breaking things, yeah, was it also like a little bit kind of the like it's oh um the the kind of the letting go of the the regret and the guilt? Was it like I've I've I've carried this literally because it's a physical item long enough and it's time for me to just let it go.

Jason 1:04:11

Yeah, yeah. That's beautiful. It was it was it was therapeutic and and just bad in the same way, but it was more therapeutic.

Matt 1:04:23

So my my situation, so Mars again, repeating uh corporate finance, very organized. She was a yang to my yang. I tried to be better for her and with her, and and since then the I've gone right back to what I am by myself, which is uh consistently inconsistent and organized chaos, um, which is fine. Uh, but if she saw this house, she would murder me. Um very, very nicely, very succinctly. But what's interesting was of all the things, right? After she passes, I don't was it in our clo? I'm gonna go it was in our closet. There was like this box, not like there was a box. And I open it, and when I say there was everything from high school photos to photos of our wedding, all strewn in this thing. It was just random. Like she had photo albums organized, and she had like, you know, things from high like she had her keepsake box of her Letterman's jacket from high school. But there's and I'm looking at I'm like, seriously, Marcy? I don't even know who these people are. I don't know what I'm supposed to do with this. There was no note. There were cards that people sent her when she was sick, and there was cards from you know the Blair being born, and there was cards from her graduating college. I'm like, what the am I supposed to do with this? I'm like, you're so organized. Then you left me one random box that I have no idea. There's receipts in it. I was like, okay, gravy. But anyway, um, I think that just got thrown in another box if we're being honest right now. So, okay, so you purge the stuff, Addison gets some stuff, you have you you have some, I'm assuming some stuff for yourself as well, right? Just a a life that was that will never be, right? Um And then where like how how did Karen in Universe Bless her how did she make the physical space for you and Addison? Well um she we'll we we are I still have some stuff in storage of course it's okay yeah but um you know we've you know we've moved in I I purge a lot I'm not gonna lie to you I purge a lot I've got maybe of um a four by eight storage unit okay stuff in the hill yeah but here and she's like when we we we had to purge her house too so she it wasn't one-sided right right right right right um um we're we're the stuff that I really want to keep she's like you know we're we'll bring it in we'll figure it out right right right but uh um you know but other than that we're we're making you know her home our home that if that makes sense totally I love that so so the kids blended you are now you're now in you're you're in um a new uh a a a new to you house that is becoming your home I like to di delineate those two words um what what is one thing you look forward to in this now that you know right you you have a a shared home with a with a new person Karen and her kids and your kid what are you looking forward to in the next two to four years with this I know it's not brand new but this new I don't like the word chapter but this new story that you're starting to author you know I don't want to tell a new book but it's a new chapter. Yeah I don't I know I got I don't know chapter always may anyway what I what yeah um we was personal preference I think I think all of us you know we all want to go to Japan at some point go where Japan oh awesome okay we you know there's things that you know my daughter wants to do there's things that both of her kids want to do and I just want to go see Japan myself because I'm you know no I I listen most people I've talked to have been there the it's almost every time they come back they're like you have no idea what this country is doing when I say this country Japan is doing like they have things that just blow your mind like they're like you want to talk about technology and oh yeah I'll kill my fucking 401k just to probably like kind of do that thing but sure but so trips as a family and they there's a liken kind of where everyone like to go and that's a nice aspirational thing whether it's you do it before the oldest gr you know the oldest gets out of college or the the youngest finishes college because there's a window for sure.

Jason 1:08:57

Well you know you know like you know her son's gonna like you know with all within like four years you know because they're all gonna be at you know adults enough to like enjoy it.

Matt 1:09:11

Yep. Yeah that's a huge one too of like how much they can enjoy it.

Jason 1:09:18

And uh you know the parents can like enjoy twos you know everyone's gonna enjoy it at some point.

Matt 1:09:25

Correct. I did I skipped over something but I want to I want to come back real quick just because I saw it on my notes. What was so took some time kids meet small introductions they're getting along all that let's talk about first you mentioned your stepmom but let's talk about your family and then let's talk about uh Karen's family and then in-laws if that works so what how did that look and feel introducing them to your family or whatever you consider your family and then you know and in-laws and her in-laws and and how does that all how is how does that how does that look feel struggles successes? I've only met her I've met Karen's um mom and dad okay and they moved to Vegas okay um um my my mom is not met with Karen yet but she's I've if my mom's gonna listen right now because she's like I've already like coming up for either Christmas years or my daughter's birthday which is in February so lovely okay um but um you know my my Heather's you know side of the family is like they've always been really good to me always been open and everything else so that's great that's beautiful yeah so um they they you know her brother and her sister really did really good things you know between like um just setting up her like Heather's memorial and stuff and her you know um celebration life and everything else so you know that's that's one thing I want to uh kind of convey to like my grandma's really um her mom and her dad were celebrated for many years but they both came up with like we'll take care of whatever and I've always had a really good relationship that's one of the one of the things I want to give you to that for for people that's like you know our female they're always good yeah you mentioned that in the note too you actually said in in um I I don't want to take but like you said that um you know like uh your true and good friends will always be there and I I was flabbergasted in the I'm gonna pick the number of months in the first six months on uh kind of like who showed up and how like is there's weird and I've said I've said this on the podcast before it's almost like a division of three like there was a third of and I'm I'm making this number up but it was like a third of the people that I thought would show up in a big way did right a third of the people that I thought would show up didn't show up at all and you're just like oh maybe this isn't for them and then there was another third I'm again making these just easy fractions right um that I was shocked that they even showed up not that I just didn't expect it of them and and I've I've made sure I've made very clear to those those two thirds the ones that didn't being very grateful and the ones that um didn't I just neutral I'm not I'm not mad. It just like because you also realize there's certain burdens certain people just can't whether it's it time in time in the time time in their life that they just can't handle the extra burden of someone in grief that's that's no that's no reflection on the friendship or or the relationship right and then there's those that all of a sudden they step up in this huge way because for me personally um there's a couple of really good guy friends that did this because they were projecting themselves because they're in a very similar situation into my situation and they're like I don't know what I would do and so I'm here and I was like there were some really good friends of mine that I lost over the years that short celebration of life and then it's like I never thought you would come right right I and that's it that's another great one of like people that showed up to the celebration of life where I was like wow you flew all the way out from California I'm like this is I don't even have the words right um that touches me though like probably that touches me the most like people I haven't seen for so long just showed up I think when it happens I know that in in a younger order right when it's out of order yeah um I think depending on where people are in their life journey it really I mean you know obviously Marcy's friends it to her core of people it rocked but I think the people that saw me how happy I was and saw how amazing this relationship was and the limit interactions that I'll just go my West Coast uh um people had seen but they also had small children and so I I know many of both my friends and their wives were just deaf because they they were feeling for me they're feeling for Blair they're feeling for Marcy and all that was lost out and so when it happens out of order I think that's not not to say that they're amazing for they're not amazing for showing up anyway but I think that's another thing that triggers people to show up in ways where they go whoa this can this this can happen and it happened to someone I knew. I think that's another big part of it right where they go holy crap right um yeah the outpouring I got from people from high school I mean I moved 2000 miles away from where we went to high school and the outpouring I got and actually to this day I just had a call with someone the other day um that just wanted to talk about grief and loss and I was just kind of like whoa like we you know we we're connected on Facebook but it wasn't like we're not not friends but we weren't weren't friends really post high school anyway. But anyway yeah so those that do show up and your in-laws are great and I do think that is worth repeating listen there are there are there are people that have and it sounds like you're not the situation I'm not I am so unbelievably blessed to have in-laws that want to be so involved in my life in their granddaughter's life that and if they listen to this I'm not meaning trying to be mean that it's annoying that it really like how can we help when can we be there? What can we I'm like holy cow and other people have very different challenges and I don't want to diminish either so so wonderful in-laws and then um like and you know just like kind of continue we said friends what was it like I mean obviously friends are going to be supportive but like did Karen's friends become your friends did your friends become Karen friends do you now have do you now have Jason friends Karen friends and Jay Karen friends well most of my friends have become Karen's friends.

Jason 1:16:35

Beautiful yeah okay I've been blessed with really we're really good people in my life and when I bring when I brought Karen around and they're like and she you know they all got you know together and stuff. I have a really good pair of friends that live out in Western Mass that you know we've spent the past two years going up surgery in New York for the Velma race.

Matt 1:17:02

Oh awesome I can't relate how much that they love Karen and oh that's amazing they they just like they really become my good friends became really good friends and like they're like oh fuck you right right listen I like my my own family like my siblings told me point blank when they met Marcy they're like you do know we like her more than you I said oh 100% like I am not pretty much no they're like you realize we're obligated to care for you but we actually like you I was like nope nope I get it I'm not I am not naive enough to think that my good friends Julie and Charlie they're like fuck you you know we're we're getting we're like listen if this if this ever goes sideways you know you're out and she's in you're like 100% now I get it you have not you know not even mad about it.

Jason 1:17:58

When it didn't go sideways that's what happened and then you know we came back on again then you know I love that.

Matt 1:18:05

So good in-laws the blending has gone well if there was um if there so we're gonna kind of get close to wrapping up here well before I do before I say before I kind of go to that pass is there anything else that you would want to share or say with just kind of what we've just talked about and then have like three or four kind of wrap up questions for you.

Jason 1:18:25

Yeah um if I'm gonna say one thing you know to give um advice to anybody out there listening if your spouse doesn't want to go to the doctor go to the doctor.

Matt 1:18:41

Yeah I think we we mentioned a little bit before like out and kicking and screaming right because that's you know that's one of the things that Heather just didn't want to go to anymore.

Jason 1:18:55

It's like I gotta go to the doctor say oh I'm not gonna go today it eventually caught up.

Matt 1:19:03

Sure well and I think like we touched on it just you know earlier about the whole idea of like and I've I've said this before in some other groups that's why I'm repeating it again which is like when people say like I want to be healthy I'm like well there's a lot of facets to that right you can run a mile in under six minutes and be an emotional wreck. You could be an emotional stable person and get winded getting off the couch right like there's there's a lot there's a lot of nuance to that right and I think that when it comes to our the people that we care about the most and I know you've you've done some work to to get to to process the regret and the guilt but even with that it's like this is somebody that we chose above all else and we should want them and help them be and again I'm using healthy across the board version of themselves possible right and I think that is really good for if you are in a new relationship and someone has something they're struggling with that if you do love them you can only take a horse to water so far and you may have to really drag them whatever that might be right whether it's doctor's appointments or therapy or best thing I've ever heard you know psychic I couldn't put it in any any better way yeah so I like that so um so if you're listening and you have someone you are in a relationship with and they listen I'll shamelessly plug it even though it's not the month of March. If you're over the age of 40 and haven't gotten a colonoscopy go. Go get it go get a two for one take your person like go get it done right um the bucket last year or so that's right yeah love it good get it done um so okay so that is that and I appreciate you uh uh reminding us of that and making that very clear um if there was anything in the grief thing if there's someone that is we'll go inside their first year if there was a little bit of advice a sentence uh something is there it what would you or let let me flip it a little bit let me let me change that if you could go back and speak to yourself in the first year what's something that you would tell you to either do not do or et cetera because it's hard to say do different because you wouldn't wind up where you are so I recognize that but if there was something that you could imp you know pass along to somebody else don't crawl in that bottle don't get in that bottle yeah and if you're if your significant other is having health issues take them to that fine guy. Yeah I love it love it.

Jason 1:21:44

I I there's that's the one thing that I want to convey to everybody that's going through their stuff.

Matt 1:21:52

Don't crawl that bottle fight for that topic yeah so here's I'm the you're gonna get a little bit of a tweak because you're one of the first persons that I've done this with um that's in a uh healthy and growing relationship so I'm gonna tweak my last there's four questions um so the last four are this the first one and this is different so welcome welcome to a new thing if Karen were to hear this podcast what would you want to say to Karen thank you for understanding we've been through the shit and I love you. That's beautiful if Addison and other kiddos but we'll say with Addison first if Addison were to stumble upon this podcast what conversation what would you want to tell Addison I did my best took care of me more than I took care of you at some point just keep going just keep going and then if if Heather could say anything to you now what do you think she would say? I know honestly I'm not gonna get popped up a couple times but okay you know what though Jason I this is something that I think a lot of us would again focus on us here right now I have this feeling so many times and I hear it in the back of my head of in the most loving supporting way I believe that Marcy would have said the same thing. She goes man you have really fucked some of this up it'll be okay but like do better but but they loved us right and so they could say it in a way um and we would want to because we love them and we want to be better than we are by ourselves and I don't think that's I don't think that's that I don't think that's far from the truth at all. I think that's that's totally fine. I also think that Heather was going to say like you don't yeah oh of course right and then lastly I promise the last one if there's anything if if somehow someway Heather were able to hear this conversation what would you want to say to Heather I love you I missed you I missed out on our our kid becoming a really good person yeah that's it's beautiful. Jason uh I started with it I'm gonna end with it I'm gonna say thank you again man there's a lot this was this went a little longer which I'm totally fine with but there's a lot in here um that I think people uh are gonna relate to I also want to thank you for being one of the first ones that we're gonna that we're talking about making the space and that transition into finding um a new relationship that is healthy and supportive and growing so thanks for sharing that with us because I mean that can be delicate so I really appreciate it. Thanks for taking time I know you're two hours later than I am so no it's fine I this is like the best thing I've done in a long time so I really appreciate it and the serendipitous was great so um I just I you know I I said it in the beginning and I I get I get there's there's an emotion that happens inside my chest yeah um when I when I get a widower on and we have these conversations and all I wind up thinking to myself is like how amazing is this that there's another guy that's willing to talk about the worst time of his life be honest about it share with others what he's been through and where he's at and where he wants to go and I'm just a guy pressing record and I really it just it's an honor and it's and I am really grateful every time and I'm and I'm really interested in as I continue to find guys that are growing um and moving towards you know whatever is next and you know not everyone has to find the next person but um a lot of it has been reflective backwards and this is a a s a shift as I move into this next um season and stuff where it's like no now it's time to talk about the worst part and then let's talk about what's going well and uh you're part of that so thanks Jason I appreciate you buddy I really appreciate you know